I’ma Be Me Astrology

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Why do some astrologers approach natal positions as something to avoid?

Sometimes delineations of Venus in Aries read:

Venus in Aries: Don’t be selfish. Pay attention to other people. Learn to compromise. Work on patience.


OK, but… is the purpose of Venus in Aries to be more like Venus in Libra? Where’s the advice on how to work with the energy of a natal placement?

Do we have natal placements just to do the opposite of them?

Wouldn’t you think that the purpose of Venus in Aries is to be brave in love? To go after the things (and people) that bring beauty and love into your life, with assertiveness? Not to sit on a fence while life passes you by?

Why would my natal chart be a set of instructions on how to be the opposite of who I am?

With Venus in Aries, I’m learning how to be an individual within a relationship. I’m not learning how to lose my identity in significant relationships. The goal is not to become more passive. The goal is to be assertive- while taking other people into account.

Some astrologers suggest that you are born manifesting all of the energy from your chart- and you need to tone it down! I think that we are growing into the energies of our charts, not out of them. We are learning to use these energies wisely.

This post was inspired by the following statement:

Moon in Leo: During this lifetime you are learning to dedicate yourself to more universal causes that allow you to do your part in furthering the evolution of the race.

Say what?!

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About AstroFix

I'm Michelle and I write AstroFix. I have an Aries Sun, Leo Moon, and Virgo rising. Find me on Twitter, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram, and Google+.
  • Venus in Scorpio, anyone };)?

  • Venus in Scorpio, anyone };)?

  • Sagittarian Mind

    I really like what you’ve written and I agree wholeheartedly with your take on that !

    • Michelle

      Thank you, I’m glad you agree πŸ™‚

  • Leah-nine

    PS- this also speaks to me on a very personal note: Chiron, Pallas Athene, Jupiter, Venus, and Moon and South Node all conjoin in Leo around the 10/11th cusp (with my Sun further on down the line but not really in aspect) and “gang up” on my lonely NN in Aquarius in the 5th. I’ve seen it suggested in many places that this suggests that I have, in a past life, forced my own self-expression at the expense of others’, or was tyrannical or too egotistical amongst groups or in my profession. The advice given has commonly been to “try not too be too [insert Leonine tendency here],” or like you said, to “tone down” my instincts.

    I like your approach much better. I believe that we do have some inherent instincts or traits associated with our natal positions, but if not investigated, understood and developed then they’ll most likely express themselves similarly to their past or early life expressions.

    I was very bossy, showy, and jealous when I was a child, as you can imagine with so much Leo activity. This really affected my relationships with friends; I often ended up alienating myself as a result. As I’ve grown and learned though, I understand how to use the Lion’s energy more effectively and how I can continue to grow into it. In other words, I can develop the goodness of the sign and use all its power to create a positive atmosphere where my friends (and future children…) can be as kooky and Aquarian as they want to be.

    • Michelle

      I was very bossy, showy, and jealous when I was a child, as you can imagine with so much Leo activity. This really affected my relationships with friends; I often ended up alienating myself as a result. As I’ve grown and learned though, I understand how to use the Lion’s energy more effectively and how I can continue to grow into it. In other words, I can develop the goodness of the sign and use all its power to create a positive atmosphere where my friends (and future children…) can be as kooky and Aquarian as they want to be. Love it πŸ™‚

  • Leah-nine

    Thank you for giving examples on how to reverse the common, fatalistic interpretations. It seems like every other site gives “dos” and don’ts” instead of seeing every energy as an asset or unique potential to be expressed. I am SO sick of seeing such a militant approach to this art!

    • Michelle

      seeing every energy as an asset or unique potential to be expressed Exactly.

  • mirrorghost

    THANK YOU. as a fellow venus in aries, and mars in cancer, and moon in capricorn (and tons of planets in detriment/fall), i LOVE this stance on things!

    • Michelle

      Thank you mirrorghost, I’m glad you liked it πŸ™‚

  • With venus in Aries, I think you have a great fashion sense πŸ˜€

    • Trine Moon in Leo too πŸ˜€ I love fashion!

  • Anonymous

    Awesome post Michelle! πŸ™‚ You said just what I was thinking the other day…..why do we have what we have if we’re meant to be something completely different? We should learn how to use our energy in the best possible expression as opposed to shunning it or changing all of it. Of course we don’t always make the best decisions and everything has a not so nice side to it, that goes for anyone/everthing,but we should focus on the good and the best use of /in our planetary energies and transform the negatively destructive into something positively constructive. In my opinion. but I believe that’s kind of what you were saying all along. πŸ™‚

  • Why do you say that?

    • “Moon in Leo

      During this lifetime you are learning to dedicate yourself to more universal causes that allow you to do your part in furthering the evolution of the race.

      Say what?!”

      Sounds like this person is telling you that you really have Moon in Aquarius, the exact opposite of what Moon in Leo is here to do, imo.

      • I don’t why I said that because I do understand what you meant.

  • LOL! So you really have Moon in Aquarius.

  • the main thing that bothers me about those interp's is that the astrologer is trying to “fix” the person. who says you want to be fixed

    Well, that's just it. I kind of like me. I don't want to be anyone else.

    • Your statements – “I kind of like me. I don’t want to be anyone else.” – are what I would say Moon in Leo needs to realize. In other words, someone with this placement has the potential to learn how to become one’s own biggest fan. The unconscious (“negative”) manifestation of Moon in Leo is looking to others for so much validation for emotional security that it becomes a self-obsession and emotional drain on others).

      • Those are certainly possibilities. I actually think “I kind of like me. I don’t want to be anyone else” is a Sun in Aries statement.

        • Agreed. But the Moon in Leo adds to you being able to come to that conclusion. Someone who is an Aries with Moon in Virgo, for example, may never be able to say that without a qualifier (like the “kind of” that you used suggests there’s some other modest influence in your chart).

          • Virgo rising πŸ™‚

            • That explains your writing style. You present your information in an easy-to-digest way. How is that blend for you? Is it difficult to express your fiery side?

              • I find that when people get used my Virgo side they don’t necessarily want to get to know my fire, which in some ways doesn’t bother me because my Sun is in the 8th and Moon’s in the 12th.

                • Planets in fire signs in the water houses? Steamy! πŸ™‚ I would like to read your poetic, lyrical fiction. Is it available on the web anywhere?

                  You do a great job with handling “just the facts”. I don’t have a Mercury-Saturn, so your posts provide the foundation for my free-floating thoughts…

  • gracehoper

    Yeah, I ignored the Leo Moon part because I thought it was complete blather, the sort of astrology I avoid.

  • sadgeuk1

    Whoa! I totally would not have expected that Moon in Leo would mean that. I would have thought it would be a kind of guideline for your own emotional needs – like, you need to do something really creative, or you need to feel acknowledged & you like being in the spotlight.

    the main thing that bothers me about those interp's is that the astrologer is trying to “fix” the person. who says you want to be fixed, hmmm? ; )

    • People who come to astrologers with problems usually phrase their question as if they want something to be “fixed”, so that’s what many astrologers are used to responding to…Plus, astrology is not journalism. Interpretation (and, therefore, personal bias and opinion) is a large part of astrology. If someone wants “just the facts”, then they can look at the degrees, for example, and that’s it. But who cares if an aspect is 3 or 4 degrees? That’s just a numerical expression that has no meaning until it’s *interpreted* – with bias and all. In my opinion, people who imagine themselves to be bias-free (the illusion of human objectivity) are more of a problem than those who insert obvious biases. Why would you think Moon in Leo means that someone is “creative”? Is it because you’ve learned to associate Leo with creativity through observing people with Moon in Leo or learning that “creativity” is one of Leo’s keywords? Both of those are biases.

  • That's fascinating about your natal Mars retrograde. I don't think I know anyone with a Mars retrograde, but I will keep this info in mind for when I do ;D

  • (with three planets in detriment) that it feels much more freeing to think of learning to become more of my natal chart, rather than overcome my natal chart.
    I'm right there with you on this. I don't want to transcend who I am, I want to discover and become more of who I am.

  • I think that some astrologers have a hard time ignoring their personal prejudices toward certain natal placements they've encountered in the past. Not everyone is like that, but it happens.

    if we are aware of the planetary energy through the study of astrology we can add deliberate intent to the mix.
    Exactly. If you know the possible manifestations of a particular aspect or configuration you can deliberately try to embody the higher expression of it.

    Also to Michelle, thanks for relocating the widget, the page view is now unobstructed again.
    You are welcome. Thank you again for letting me know. I check this site for errors in IE8, Chrome, Firefox and Safari on 3 different computers, but sometimes there are still problems in other browsers, monitors, etc…

  • GJ

    Michelle, “Why do some astrologers approach natal astrology as something to avoid?”

    Good question.

    Maybe it's the way they were taught. Or maybe they are projecting their own biases onto the reader. Say for example they know someone personally who has that placement and they didn't like how that energy was expressed through that person. They may see it as bad or dangerous and use astrology to try to warn, reform or correct others. Conversely, they may see a different placement as being good or somehow benevolent based or their own experience. And they may not be aware they are doing it.

    Any astrology horoscope, column or book for general readers that stresses psychological or behavior modification advice should be questioned.
    As good as some are, most astrologers are not qualified to give that kind of advice and even if they are they should confine their admonitions to private readings and only if the client requests it.

    Take a look at today's horoscope from a popular site, as it illustrates another example of what you are talking about:

    “Every now and then, the universe sends along a nice surprise for no special reason, and you're just about due for your turn now. Someone you haven't seen for far too long may return to your life — and not just for a quick walk-on appearance, either. Whether or not they admit it, they want to be back for good. Be generous, pretend you didn't know they were coming and let them to do their dance discreetly.”

    Useless advice…and not much different than the passage you included at the beginning of your post.

    Keep thinking for yourself, Michelle, you've done ok so far.

    A nod to Vinessa about high and low vibrations. I have yet to know anyone who had trouble expressing the low side of any planet, thought or emotion. It's usually the higher vibration that we strive for. I think planetary energy assists us and if we are aware of the planetary energy through the study of astrology we can add deliberate intent to the mix…such as deliberately invoking that warrior energy you mentioned.

    To NR: I too, have natal Venus in Virgo and right work is a major theme in my life. In addition, I have met all but one of my love and romance partners at work, so that placement has been very beneficial for me in that respect.

    Also to Michelle, thanks for relocating the widget, the page view is now unobstructed again.

  • That's fascinating about your natal Mars retrograde. I don't think I know anyone with a Mars retrograde, but I will keep this info in mind for when I do ;D

  • (with three planets in detriment) that it feels much more freeing to think of learning to become more of my natal chart, rather than overcome my natal chart.
    I'm right there with you on this. I don't want to transcend who I am, I want to discover and become more of who I am.

  • I think that some astrologers have a hard time ignoring their personal prejudices toward certain natal placements they've encountered in the past. Not everyone is like that, but it happens.

    if we are aware of the planetary energy through the study of astrology we can add deliberate intent to the mix.
    Exactly. If you know the possible manifestations of a particular aspect or configuration you can deliberately try to embody the higher expression of it.

    Also to Michelle, thanks for relocating the widget, the page view is now unobstructed again.
    You are welcome. Thank you again for letting me know. I check this site for errors in IE8, Chrome, Firefox and Safari on 3 different computers, but sometimes there are still problems in other browsers, monitors, etc…

  • GJ

    Michelle, “Why do some astrologers approach natal astrology as something to avoid?”

    Good question.

    Maybe it's the way they were taught. Or maybe they are projecting their own biases onto the reader. Say for example they know someone personally who has that placement and they didn't like how that energy was expressed through that person. They may see it as bad or dangerous and use astrology to try to warn, reform or correct others. Conversely, they may see a different placement as being good or somehow benevolent based or their own experience. And they may not be aware they are doing it.

    Any astrology horoscope, column or book for general readers that stresses psychological or behavior modification advice should be questioned.
    As good as some are, most astrologers are not qualified to give that kind of advice and even if they are they should confine their admonitions to private readings and only if the client requests it.

    Take a look at today's horoscope from a popular site, as it illustrates another example of what you are talking about:

    “Every now and then, the universe sends along a nice surprise for no special reason, and you're just about due for your turn now. Someone you haven't seen for far too long may return to your life — and not just for a quick walk-on appearance, either. Whether or not they admit it, they want to be back for good. Be generous, pretend you didn't know they were coming and let them to do their dance discreetly.”

    Useless advice…and not much different than the passage you included at the beginning of your post.

    Keep thinking for yourself, Michelle, you've done ok so far.

    A nod to Vinessa about high and low vibrations. I have yet to know anyone who had trouble expressing the low side of any planet, thought or emotion. It's usually the higher vibration that we strive for. I think planetary energy assists us and if we are aware of the planetary energy through the study of astrology we can add deliberate intent to the mix…such as deliberately invoking that warrior energy you mentioned.

    To NR: I too, have natal Venus in Virgo and right work is a major theme in my life. In addition, I have met all but one of my love and romance partners at work, so that placement has been very beneficial for me in that respect.

    Also to Michelle, thanks for relocating the widget, the page view is now unobstructed again.

  • Really good post. It's funny, in my blog I always work with the planetary energy, suggesting ways to put the energy to good use that day – NOT to change it or “evolve” it into something else. But in natal chart reading I do tend to see the natal energies as where we've developed to by the moment of birth, not what we want to develop this lifetime. So thank you, you've pointed out a dichotomy in my thinking. And I must say, (with three planets in detriment) that it feels much more freeing to think of learning to become more of my natal chart, rather than overcome my natal chart. Especially since it's been fairly impossible, or at least uninteresting, to try to do so, so far.

  • LB

    My Mars is retrograde and I always feel slightly offended when I read some of the more negative descriptions (like uncoordinated, inactive, inarticulate, unassertive). I was obviously meant to have that retrograde Mars for a reason, and I think it’s been a good thing in helping me to step back and think before I act; also great for picking up on negative energies/hidden agendas. Plus I’m very physically active and coordinated (I danced) – always have been – so those description never quite fit. I like what one of your commenters said about developing the higher expression of our planets.

    Good post. I’m enjoying the feedback.

  • I'm just starting to get my feet wet with evolutionary astrology. It sounds like I already agree with some of it πŸ˜€

    Maybe I just agree with you because I have Mars, Saturn and Venus in fall/detriment/detriment ; )

  • I do like lists, but only when I make them πŸ˜‰

    Thank you for visiting, Third_hs.

  • lol πŸ˜€

  • This is a very Evolutionary post! πŸ™‚

    You're quite right; telling people their planets are weak or afflicted, and to be less like that, doesn't help anyone. But maybe I just think that because my sun is in its fall. Haha.

    I think Venus in Aries people make really exciting art… that can't be a bad thing.

  • lol, You are basically the Aries of my dreams.

  • Progressed Venus and Moon conjunct right on the Descendant- that's amazing. It probably accounts for why you've been liking Aries peeps so much lately too. You know, my Sun is 19 Aries. Wanna get married? πŸ˜› My progressed Ascendant is in Libra, and pSun and pVenus are in Taurus. You're feeling more like me and I'm feeling more like you πŸ™‚

  • Let me take that back. It *was* sitting exactly on my descendant right around the time I met my boyfriend. We met around December 2009 and started dating January 2010. My nDSC is 18 degrees Aries. Right now, pVenus is at 19 degrees Aries and my pMoon is at 18 degrees Aries.

    Makes me feel like this relationship is definitely a significant one.

  • “Pleasantly assertive” is something I can agree with. There is a way to assert yourself that is nonabrasive- but it's still not the same as compromising (though there's nothing inherently wrong with compromise either).

    Thanks for stopping by Allhoney55 πŸ™‚

    Edit: “a mouse while it is going on”- that is exactly my point. You aren't using your Venus in Aries energy while you are in a relationship because you haven't mastered it. It's not about being a bully; it's about maintaining your individual sense of self, and an awareness of your own personal needs within a relationship.I think that is one of the things that we, as Venus in Aries people, are learning. I think that we can become mousy when we try to compromise too much and we loose our sense of self. We swing too far into Libraland and forget our whole purpose. With many Aries placements a person can become so afraid of being seen as selfish that they turn in the complete opposite direction- and they lose all their Fire.

  • I think Venus in Aries, like many other placements, gets a bad rap. I'm just jaded because I have two planets in detriment and one in fall. But that means I work harder, right?

  • That makes sense. There is always the opposite sign to consider and those polar traits that it possesses.

    However, I do think that, even as I focus on courage, initiative and creativity, there always lurks below the surface the potential to be selfish and self-centered. It takes constant, conscious awareness to prevent me from taking those paths.

    Thanks for reading Vinessa πŸ˜€

  • Wow that is a hot progression, lol. Where is your progressed Moon right now?

  • Thanks Neeti!

    My mother and boyfriend both have Venus in Virgo. They seem to get great joy from being of service to the people they love. They both like doing little things on a daily basis to show that they care. It's not a bad placement πŸ™‚

  • I think this author was overreaching by bringing in too much Aquarius energy to illustrate the balance point. Way too much Aquarius energy. This sounds like an Aquarian or 11th house Moon description.

  • Third_hs

    I have Venus in Aries, with Libra on the 12th. Basically I help end bad marriages. No, seriously, I get what you are saying and agree, for all of the signs. Of course with Aries in particular, a list of things not to do is expecially exasperating.

    Virgo in Venus: I know a wisely married (made for eachother) Virgo Venus who works with a lot of tactile art. It's very fussy and delicate (she won't let me help her move it as I'm not properly trained, you know, unless she just senses my Aries traits). I never thought of that position as a negative.

  • gracehoper

    The writer didn't express it very well; he/she was just trying to communicate some of the pitfalls of a debilitated Venus and give advice on how to moderate them. It was expressed pretty paternally, though!

  • Allhoney55

    My take is that we are earning to express and incorporate the qualities of our natal chart in a way that does not run others away screeching. I have a natal Venus in Aries, conjunct the sun no less, a 7th house Mars, and a moon conjunct uranus in Leo, but I have a tendency to lose myself in relationships. Go figure. Must be that 6th house south node in Taurus 7 degrees away from the descendent. I am a warrior before the relationship starts and a mouse while it is going on (until I get fed up, then I abruptly leave). Using myself as an example, I would say that I need to learn how to be pleasantly assertive in relationships. That's my 25 cents.

  • I think it's a value judgment perpetuated by the writer.

  • NR

    That progression: pVenus on DSC sounds important!

  • I think the idea is to integrate the axis, although you're right, it comes off as dismissive of what you have, which is baloney!! It's too bad that the writing makes it come across poorly. From my perspective it's mixing up different dimensions. Aries shouldn't try to be not-Aries — but Aries does have a choice between being low Aries or high Aries. Low Aries might be narcissistic, megalomaniacal, belligerent, abusive…. The prescription for low Aries is a bit of high Libra — not to water down or diminish Aries, but to LIFT it to its higher expression. The same is true for low Libra — it's remedy is a bit of high Aries. Warriors rarely fight solo for example — they always have buddies, troops, squadrons, platoons, etc. They also respect command. They fight to protect others, not only themselves. A good warrior is flexible and responsive (high Libra) — not indecisive (low Libra). The core keynote of Aries will always be Aries, not Libra. Courage, initiative, creativity, entrepreneurialness, etc. But all these good qualities can be kept from descending into the low aspects of Aries by remembering the axis as a whole and not simply sinking into reactive, violent selfishness. Does that make sense?

  • During this lifetime you are learning to dedicate yourself to more universal causes that allow you to do your part in furthering the evolution of the race.

    Lol! Psh — Fat chance!

    That makes me reconsider how impulsive I've been recently about relationships. I think that the events that followed after I met my boyfriend, I've been fairly brave and impulsive (much more so than Venus in Pisces would suggest). My progressed Venus is in Aries and it's sitting right on my natal descendant.

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  • NR

    Is that a picture of Venus in Aries? I love it.

    “Where’s the advice on how to work with the energy of a natal placement?” Michael O'Reilly recently saw my chart, looked at my poor Venus in Virgo (detriment) and told me, that despite what traditional astrology says about the placement, he tells his client with this Venus to find find work they love. Venus in Virgo needs work she loves to be happy. That helped me.

    I'm with you on what you say here. To help people see what the energy is like, to point out any pitfalls and then help them express it in a way that will bring them joy.

    Loved your post. xxx