Out of Sign Aspects

An out of sign aspect involves two planets in aspect yet in signs that do not match the aspect.

The energy of the planets is in sync for the aspect but the expression of the planets conflicts with the aspect.

When using the major aspects (conjunction, opposition, square, trine, sextile and quincunx), out of sign aspects always involve one planet at the very beginning of a sign and a second planet at the very end of a sign.

Example #1: Moon at 27 Aries opposite Mars at 0 Scorpio.

Aries and Scorpio are naturally quincunx, yet the Moon and Mars form an opposition by degree.
The Moon and Mars are 183 degrees apart. A perfect opposition is 180 degrees. This aspect is within 3 degrees of forming a perfect opposition.

Example #2: Mercury at 1 Gemini trine Jupiter at 29 Virgo.

Gemini and Virgo are naturally square yet Mercury and Jupiter form a trine.
Mercury and Jupiter are 118 degrees apart. A perfect trine is 120 degrees. This aspect is within 2 degrees of forming a perfect trine.

Interpretation

In example #1 The energy of the Moon and Mars is opposed, yet the way that energy is expressed is as if there is an adjustment being made.

What does that mean?

With the Moon and Mars in opposition, this person would have an energized emotional life and may feel anger coming towards him, or that his emotional life conflicts with his ability to act. With Aries and Scorpio quincunx, the expectation that his needs will be met instantly is amended by a tendency to be too intense in going after what he wants. What he needs and how he acts are opposed. How he expresses his happiness (Moon) – spontaneous and with little complication (Aries) – never quite matches the way he asserts himself (Mars) – covert, probing and intense. He may be the type to say, “Why can’t I get what I want – now?” Then he makes it nearly impossible for people to guess what he wants by being difficult and enigmatic.

In example #2 The energy of Mercury and Jupiter is in harmony, yet the way that energy is expressed is as if the energy is working at cross purposes.

What does that mean?

With Mercury and Jupiter trine, this person is naturally broad-minded and has confidence in her opinions. With Gemini and Virgo square, the way she takes in information causes tension with her need to put that information into a system. She may be overrun with ideas and be at a loss as to how to organize those ideas in a way that she can use them. When she attempts to express her opinion, she may not be able to get her facts straight, or she might talk so much that her point is lost entirely.

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http://twitter.com/casseia casseia

I have an out of sign opposition between my Sun at 1 Gem and my Moon at 26 Scorpio — I really wrestle with interpreting both that one and the out of sign trine between the Moon and Jupiter at 0 Leo 1′. I would have a Grand Trine in Water with the Moon, Jupiter, and Chiron (at 29 Pisces) but for Jupiter having just squeaked into Leo. Or I could have been born with a Sag Moon (my mom’s labor was freakishly fast — I *could* have waited for a Sag Moon) and the opposition and trine would have been in sign. I’m not sure that having a Scorpio Moon (trine Chiron) has been the funnest possible placement…

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

I’d say you have that Grand trine but that the expression is a little different than if all the planets were in Water.

Which Moon do you feel more affinity with?

http://twitter.com/casseia casseia

Oh, definitely the Scorp Moon. I’m just whining a little :) The Moon-Chiron trine is really apparent in me, I think — it’s the Jupiter in Leo that’s less obvious. And having out of sign aspects also suits me, really.

Anonymous

I have the hardest time wrapping my mind around out of sign aspects!

I have Venus square Mars, with Venus at 27Taurus and Mars at 1Pisces. It *sounds* like the two would rather get along, doesn’t it! But a 4 degree orb isn’t too extravagant. I also have Venus in Taurus trine Pluto at 1 Libra, trine by orb but quincunx by sign. Venus square Moon at 4 Virgo, but 6-7 degree orbs are getting out there for me. Oh and of course an out of sign conjunction of Pluto with my IC — Pluto at 1Libra conjunct 26Virgo IC.
http://twitter.com/Jupitergeek Sarah Litwin

Example #1 involves an applying aspect of both Mars-ruled signs. Here, the Moon will look to Mars for utter domination of this expression. It will undoubtedly be STRONG. And ultimately, especially important if we are talking about a nativity, they will oppose exactly by progression.

Example #2 uses both Mercury-ruled signs although separating in aspect. Jupiter, although considered weak or in Detriment, is strengthened by its connection directly back to the well-placed Mercury.

Dare I say these are almost better examples of dignified sign relationships rather than out-of-sign aspects?
I would recommend more difficult yet rewarding examples such as maybe 1° Moon in Pisces to say 27° Mars in Leo and 2° Mercury in Capricorn to 29° Jupiter in Aries.

Either way, it all warrants further intense studies or discussion! ^_^

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Dare I say these are almost better examples of dignified sign relationships rather than out-of-sign aspects?
You could say that, but I’d disagree. An out of sign aspect is an out of sign aspect regardless if the signs share a ruler. Scorpio is not Aries and Aries is not Scorpio. They have different expression. It seems to me that you’re saying that conflicts in these aspects don’t exist because the signs share a ruler.

I would recommend more difficult yet rewarding examples…
I think those examples are easier because the differences are obvious. I think it’s more difficult to delineate aspects that have similarities.

Let me give you an example from my own chart:
Mercury at 26 Aries in the 8th house opposite Uranus at 5 Scorpio in the 3rd house.

There are many similarities between these two placements and they make many of the same statements.
Mercury in the 8th house has similarities to Scorpio in the 3rd
Uranus is the higher octave of Mercury
Uranus is in Mercury’s natural house
Uranus is exalted by sign placement and in accidental dignity by house placement

I could say that the expression of this placement is strong and there is no conflict because they have so much in common, however, living with this placement, I know that’s not true.

The need for deeply intimate communication conflicts with my tendency to be extremely sarcastic at times. Wanting to create an environment where people can share their most private thoughts conflicts with my urge to provoke people just to see what they say. Experimenting with what I say or how I say it can break established communication lines. People don’t like it when they feel like they can trust you and then you perform a communication experiment on them.

I can’t expect people to open up and share their most private selves with me in conversation if I turn around and say something biting and borderline mean. Some people like sarcastic humor but most walk away with hurt feelings. Establishing a level of trust in intimate sharing doesn’t go together with Uranus’s need to shake things up or Scorpio’s tendency to be provocative and hold grudges.

Sometimes I actually get impatient with my own need to be original. Sometimes, when writing this blog, I just want to finish but the pressure I feel to come up with some new insight in each and every post wears my patience thin.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

I forgot to mention that the progressed Moon in this example would be exactly opposite the Mars for only a short time. The progressed Moon spends about 2.5 years in a sign so the exact opposition would last only for a matter of months.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts Sarah.
billow

Originality can be a curse, as it can cause much misunderstanding and sometimes is met with fear and anger.

For what it’s worth, your straightforward is what I like.

But I suppose, if this beast you talk about actually exists, and would raise its ugly head and say boo, I would opt for retreat.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

It won’t raise an ugly head. The awareness of it keeps it under wraps. It took a while to make that realization. I wasn’t entirely comfortable sharing that, but it is what it is.

billow

I would think that in your work, learning how to best open clients up to move toward whatever they are reaching for would be a constant challenge. You probably have an innate ability to do that backed by your expertise. But let’s face it we can all do a better job on how we deliver our services. It’s a life long process, but some of us are just so darn hard on ourselves. Instead of beating myself up about it anymore, I just resolve to let it go and do better next time. I am calling that learning.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

It’s a life long process, but some of us are just so darn hard on ourselves. Instead of beating myself up about it anymore, I just resolve to let it go and do better next time. I am calling that learning.
I’m extremely hard on myself. You’re absolutely right – I do resolve to do it better and I am calling it part of the learning process.

Leah-nine

Sounds like Uranus is a pain in ur-anus. Bahaha.

Leah-nine

I’m sorry, that’s very ass-inine.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Still thinking about your reply. You make some great points about dignity and debility. I feel urged to get my thoughts straight and write a few posts on the topic – thank you!

http://cryptonous.org Le Feu Follet

I have Chiron at 3 Virgo 25′ opposing my Moon at 27 Aquarius 43′. The Moon is also loosely conjunct Saturn at 7 Pisces 55′.

The Moon-Saturn conjunction isn’t very nice but I think that if it was entirely within Pisces, it could be much worse. Aquarius gives some air rationality to my Moon whereas Pisces would give me even more water (I’m already full of it). I could be extremely depressive, given the other aspects I have to the Moon.

As for the Chiron-Moon opposition, I can hardly guess how that can be interpreted. I suppose that as Virgo is in the 4th house cusp, my 3rd Chiron makes me even more lonely. Virgo’s worries and perfectionism go directly to my Moon and I feel like I should bear all the emotional pain alone.

Hodad

I have a Sun/Jupiter opposition with the Sun at 5 Cancer in the 10th and Jupiter at 27 Sagittarius(retrograde) in the 4th.Sun/Jupiter is optimistic,generous and sincere but with the opposition there is the tendency to overdo.Not sure what the dynamics are with Cancer Sun/late Sagittarius Jupiter.I am also curious about how having a retrograde Jupiter alters its expression.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

How do you balance your need for intimacy with your need for freedom?
billow

Ha ha. Got the sun jupiter conjunct in virgo. Also a tendency to overdo. Causy causy me. I was doing the rescue game for a friend and her kids. Alot. I was leaving their house one day and the boy kid was shooting hoops and he asks me “who made you our slave?” I was growling inside, but that little crap mouth changed my life. We all have a much better relationship now as I came to realize they are not my responsibility. And they are doing much better as a unit.

And as for causiness, I think it nearly got me killed for the last time a year or so ago.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Oh Virgos…you guys always seem to put yourselves in the position of unpaid servant. Can’t run yourself into the ground trying to help everybody.

billow

Yeah, responsible for all the ills of the world. Doesn’t help that the duo is sextiled by the moon. How annoying can that be. Really enjoy working as long as it is towards something, but really don’t like being whipped while doing it. I’m self flagellating enough.

Am learning to be more selective about what I sign up for. And to adjust my attitude about what I choose to do. I did this naturalist training a while back and I was all fired up about it and just railing on this very accomplished lecturer. You know had to know the right route to take. Adamant about the cause. He stopped the lecture. Looked at me point blank. And said “we do this because it is fun.” Imagine that. My work is easier now, an adventure (yippee for Sag NN), since Marty Poppins set me straight.

billow

Oh, and thanks for mentioning the scorpionic grudge. At least it’s not revenge. That game don’t work.

I can get indignant at authoritarian types for their seemingly egotistical assumptions (Saturn in Scorpio square Leo Pluto?). That’s were I am working not to lash out. It’s just theiother’s assumptions, their perception, right?. It tells me where they are at and oftentimes has nothing to do with me. Like my favorite hard core waiter says, ” i don’t want to eat what you have already swallowed.” Gosh I’m quotey lately.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

It tells me where they are at and oftentimes has nothing to do with me.
I find that people’s attitudes rarely have anything to do with me – they have their own life to deal with. It helps.

billow

“I find that people’s attitudes rarely have anything to do with me” . . . that probably comes easier for Aries energy? Scapegoating on Aries is a waste of energy?

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Maybe…although I used to take everything personally. All the Aries energy I have is disposited by Mars in Cancer. I try not to let myself attach emotion to the outcome of my actions. I can still care about what happens, how people react, and whether I am doing the ‘right’ thing, but it’s detrimental (lol) for me to become overly emotionally invested in the results of my actions.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Am learning to be more selective about what I sign up for.
Yes! Positive use of Virgo’s natural discernment. I think it’s part of Virgo’s path to start learning what is exactly right for their life path.

My work is easier now, an adventure (yippee for Sag NN)
Fun? Adventure? What’s not to like? :)

billow

I hate to keep pounding this Aries thing, but long before I bumped into astrology I always loved Aries men, and admired Aries women. I enjoy crossing paths with the women, but in no way can I keep up on a steady basis.,nor would I want to, as it would burn me out. And the men, I just loved them too much to ever consider relationshipitizing about it. All my deep processing would just drag the whole thing down.

I realize that Sag is supposed to be all about adventure, but can’t stand the responsibility of providing it for them. I end up feeling like the dead mouse the cat continues to throw in the air in an effort to make it move. So fun and adventure reminds me of Aries energy. Aries may not have all the answers, but it’s really not an issue around them. Could that have to do with the 5-6 natal houses Aries falls in? Kinduv a freedom to create?

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

It’s funny, I think Virgo really does have a hard time with the fun and adventure. Virgo tends to like systems. It creates information pathways to deal with incoming stimuli- it’s not especially spontaneous. Aries has spontaneity, but the fun and adventure part varies I think. If the fun and adventure meshes with what Aries already wants to do, it probably works. Aries isn’t especially “go with the flow.” Sagittarius is much more likely to tag along for the ride being a mutable fire sign.

billow

“Tag along” . . . thanks for that, it helps. Problem is alot of times I’m not going anywhere. I’ve had to drop a Sag pal. The restless nagging was killing me. She still leaves messages, but I cannot make myself return the call.

I’m really good at systemizing, except in my personal life (slob, slob, slob). But for some reason I have lost my fascination with devising systems. It’s much more fun to be in a group and to experience what the group creates. I don’t seem to be as personally invested in the outcome anymore.

“what Aries wants to do” . . . yeah I came close with an Aries once, but I really liked him and he was just looking for a woman unit. I happened to be there. It was good not to be spontaneous in that situation. :D He told me it’s not that men (generalization is his, not mine) want to get married, they just don’t want anybody else to have you. Like relationships aren’t hard enough without that.
billow

Got alot of bingos from this interchange. Great work!!!

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Yay :D

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Saturn being the co-ruler of Aquarius gives your Moon/Saturn conjunction a double dose of Saturn. Breaking down that rigidiy to actual feel your emotions rather than rationalize them or cut them off would probably ease the pain.

You might be more prone to feel sorry for yourself if you had the Moon in Pisces.

Chiron in Virgo opp Moon in Aquarius could point to being too clinical about your emotional life, and probably too hard on yourself.

Anonymous

Chiron in Virgo also makes for great doctors and nurses! But opposite Moon in Aquarius one might not like being attached to the scheduled life they have to undertake, and chafe against it. Chiron in Virgo natives might go into the medical field but choose something that gives them a lot of freedom of scheduling, like plastic surgery. :)

http://cryptonous.org Le Feu Follet

Well, that’s good to know. I feel more confident in my career!
http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Like plastic surgery? lol!

Agree on all your great points.

Anonymous

How have you been dealing with the Neptune-Chiron conjunction/Chiron opp Chiron on top of your moon this past year?

http://cryptonous.org Le Feu Follet

Yes. 2010 definitely wasn’t a nice year. Saturn transiting my 4th house has been opposing my Sun since December, and progressed solar arc Saturn is now conjunct my chart ruler Mercury and Mars. I still haven’t recovered. These hard transits are going to end soon, I believe. I hope so.

Hayley11

i have a venus in aquarius trine mars in taurus, that, by sign, makes a square, what that could mean?

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

If you think about how Aquarius and Taurus related to each other, and then how Venus and Mars relate to each other, what do you think are some of the possibilities? You can check out the Venus/Mars Aspects post for some ideas: http://astrofix.net/2010/09/09/venus-mars-aspects/

LB

My Libra Sun is conjunct my Scorpio in Neptune. Much as I may want to get along and keep things nice by being socially pleasant, my Scorpio Neptune (and other planets) can’t help but sense what’s really going on beneath the surface of things, and can never leave well enough alone. My Neptune is never satisfied with superficialities; it demands absolute spiritual involvement. My Libra Sun loves beautiful things, but my Neptune reminds me not to become too attached to the material world – everything must transform. Spiritual beauty is of greater value. I actually like the combination. I’ve found it to be helpful in a lot of ways.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Neptune reminds me not to become too attached to the material world – everything must transform. Spiritual beauty is of greater value.

I like that. What a great way to interpret the aspect relationship.

Dazzled

I hope I got these right. I have Chiron in my 4th house, in 1 Cancer

2nd/3rd House Moon in 13 Taurus 2nd/3rd house semi-square Chiron (orb 2 is this an OOS aspect?)
4th house Mercury in 25 Gemini conjunct Chiron (orb 6)
1st house Mars in 27 Pisces square Chiron (orb 4)
10th house Saturn in 27 Sag oppose Chiron (orb 3)
10t house Uranus in 28 Sag oppose Chiron (orb 3)

Moon and Chiron supposed to be sextile by signs but are instead semi-square
Mercury in Conjunction but in different signs.
Mars and Chiron supposed to be trine, but are square.
Saturn/Uranus quincunx by sign, but are in opposition.

If Chiron is about wounds and healing, I suppose the expression of these planets will always in some way trigger my wounds of Chiron in Cancer 4th house (yes, whaddya know I REALLY feel sensitive about my family).
I suppose this sensitivity never goes away, but I’ve slowly learn to channel it into a drive to serve and help other people. Such OOS aspects gives me various creative ways to move beyond the wound. I write (moon/mercury), I talk(mercury), I act (Mars) about it, I break through (Uranus) and I set rules in my life (Saturn).
So here I am typing about it and understanding this more. But there’s nothing straight forward about this, which is what I gather from OOS aspects.

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

So here I am typing about it and understanding this more. But there’s nothing straight forward about this, which is what I gather from OOS aspects.
Yes, I think you’re right – they are not straightforward. But, working them through bit by bit can help you come to insight and understanding.

Semisquares are 45 degrees, so they should be in adjacent signs.

I like your breakdown of how you deal with your Chiron aspect.

Thank you for reading Dazzled :)
http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

So here I am typing about it and understanding this more. But there’s nothing straight forward about this, which is what I gather from OOS aspects.
Yes, I think you’re right – they are not straightforward. But, working them through bit by bit can help you come to insight and understanding.

Semisquares are 45 degrees, so they should be in adjacent signs.

I like your breakdown of how you deal with your Chiron aspect.

Thank you for reading Dazzled :)
http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

So here I am typing about it and understanding this more. But there’s nothing straight forward about this, which is what I gather from OOS aspects.
Yes, I think you’re right – they are not straightforward. But, working them through bit by bit can help you come to insight and understanding.

Semisquares are 45 degrees, so they should be in adjacent signs.

I like your breakdown of how you deal with your Chiron aspect.

Thank you for reading Dazzled :)

http://fascinus.tumblr.com/ Joswan

I just made out solar return reading for my friend. Pluto transit at 3 Cap trine Moon at 27 degree Aries. Pluto in 3rd and Moon in 6th. I’d say the Capricorn Pluto of new conventional global economy works well with her current emotion/intuiton to be self reliance, independent, inovative organizer, especialy in career and health. But could it be something else Michelle?

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

I tend not to put too much weight on Pluto in the solar return unless it’s aspecting a cusp or planet in the natal chart.

I see Pluto in Capricorn as a breakdown of existing business models. With Uranus in Aries about to square it, more and more people are striking out on their own, creating start-ups and working for themselves. With her solar return Moon in Aries in the 6th she might be moved to assert more independence in her existing job, take on more of a management role, or even have communication struggles with her coworkers.

http://fascinus.tumblr.com/ Joswan

Excellent!! I’ll tell her that. Thank ya :D

Les

I have first house Mercury at 0 Virgo 19′ (and Venus/Pluto at 2 Virgo) square my 10th house Mars at 27 Taurus. I tend to forget they’re even connected. I think that Pluto might give that Mars an extra relentlessness sometimes, though. It’s the only out-of-sign aspect I have (and only aspect Mars makes in my chart). I do have some out-of-sign aspects with my bf – his Moon at 29 Scorpio is square my Merc & Venus/Pluto in Virgo – square but compatible elements. His Sun at 28 Aries is trine my Merc & Venus/Pluto in Virgo – trine but in incompatible elements!

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

I think that Pluto might give that Mars an extra relentlessness sometimes, though.
Absolutely!

Check out this post by Zane Stein on out of sign synastry aspects: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Astrology-2205/2008/5/sign-aspects-aspects-sign.htm

Les

Interesting post – thanks! Although he talks specifically about an out-of-sign opposition. I think my bf’s 28 Aries Sun is almost like inconjunct my early Virgo stellium, which would otherwise be a nice trine. (His Sun does make a wide trine to my Leo Moon, though, so that helps!) His 29 Scorp Moon would be in challenging square aspect to that early Virgo stellium, but softened by being in compatible elements. I think it also depends on the individual person’s tolerance for difference and maturity. I do have Leo Moon conjunct Uranus, so I like things shaken up a bit. But we’re balanced off with some other more comfortable aspects. I think a mix of comfy “feels like home” aspects and “who *are* you??” is good!

Zoa

Most of my aspects are out-of-sign
Sun at 29 Aquarius sextile Saturn and Uranus, both at 0 Capricorn
Jupiter at 26 Aries trine Saturn and Uranus at 0 Capricorn
Mars at 27 Sag conjunct (again) Saturn and Uranus at 0 Capricorn.

No wonder I’m a mess…

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

So you’re Uranus is at a 0 degree cardinal point. Transiting Uranus will square your natal Uranus when it hits 0 Aries in April.

Thank you for reading Zoa :D

Zoa

Thank you for your great posts!

Uranus will be squaring my natal Saturn and Uranus, both at 0 Capricorn. Looks like some big changes are coming in the spring…

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Yes, I think so :)

Leah-nine

Does this apply to out-of-house aspects as well? For instance, Pluto in the 2nd opposite Mars in the 9th?

Michelle

Mm…not really. Houses deal more with specific areas of life and where energy is expressed rather than how the energy is expressed.

amoureuse

i am not sure if i understand this right. is this conjunction? –> for example my juno is in 28 degrees sagitarrius. and then his juno is in 5 degrees capricorn. is this an out of sign aspect? or is this a conjunct? or what is it?

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

That is an out of sign conjunction.

amoureuse

awwww okies… thanks mich… how far are planets away to be considered a conjunction?

http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

It depends who you ask. Sometimes I go up to 10 degrees.

Astrohelp

Nice articles, also read on indian astrology at http://www.astrohelp.in
http://astrofix.net/ Michelle

Taurus and Aquarius are really different. Both really stubborn though ;)