Jupiter/Chiron Aspects

silver keysWounding to your sense of joy and laughter. Wounding to your sense of humor. Wounded sense of abundance. Feeling that there isn’t enough to go around. Going so far overboard that it hurts. Too much optimism. Stifling natural expressions of pain and sorrow. Being told to lighten up all the time. Being told not to take things so seriously. Wearing a forced smile. Smiling through grief. Feeling pained by people who are not comfortable expressing pain and sadness. Overwhelming people with your feelings that things are unjust, unfair or biased. Helping others to find natural joy. Real joy as opposed to forced joy and fake smiles. Joy and pain, like sunshine and rain. Laughing through the tears.

Wounding to your sense of feeling protected by a greater force. Wounding to your relationship to god. Wounding to your sense that you can stretch beyond your current limits. Having a strong, but possibly flawed, point of view. Flawed morals. Flawed missions. Missions that go awry. Taking a cause overboard. Having such a strong point of view that you hurt other people through it and your mission to prove it. Acting out of moral pain. Taking on a mission out of a sense of inner pain. Morality and ethics as a path to wholeness. The search for meaning as a path to wholeness.  Moral and ethical pain points. Playing god. Quests and journeys as outlets for healing. Fanaticism. Gurus, mentors and teachers. Other people go to you for advice and counsel. Wise people – but how they choose to use their wisdom varies. Using your wisdom to guide others rather than to dominate others. Using doctrine or beliefs as a way to put the “fear of God” into people. Cultural or religious pain that takes on exaggerated proportions. Devotion to a path as as source of healing.

Healing by addressing the pain of a culture or people. Healing the truth. Finding your own truth. Knowing that the truth you’ve been told is flawed or skewed. Holding fast to your principles and beliefs. Having a set of principles based on experience. Having a belief system based on experiences of personal pain and the wisdom it took to overcome it. Finding wholeness by trying to do right. Civil rights activists. Religious nut cases. Cult leaders.

Magnified wounds. Too much self-reflection. Too much time spent pondering or pontificating. Overcome by a sense of meaninglessness. Pain blown out of proportion. Success through accepting your flaws and imperfections. Success through devoting yourself to those causes that have meaning in your life. Finding wholeness through embracing a moral or ethical stance. Gaining hope and faith by finding a good balance of joy and pain. Faith and belief in yourself based on wisdom gained through experience. Enthusiasm in the face of insurmountable odds. People who overcome the cultural odds.

smiling key coversWholeness comes through being happy when you’re happy and sad when you’re sad. Healing comes through finding a way to rectify injustices in your culture or religion. Healing comes through finding a balanced moral stance. Healing comes through developing a personal code of ethics. Healing comes through discovering what is truly meaningful in your life. Healing comes through trusting in your own wisdom. Healing comes through taking in the big picture. Healing comes through interactions with people who have a different perspective. You’re a guru, mentor and teacher when you give advice based on real experience. You’re a force for healing when you can appreciate someone else’s perspective while being firm in your own beliefs. Wisdom comes through knowing when you’re taking a cause too far. Healing comes through remaining open and optimistic, and keeping your sense of humor.

original chiron glyph

Original Chiron glyph. Click to read more.

Chiron is both a minor planet and a comet. It is located between Saturn and Uranus. Chiron takes about 50 years to make one complete cycle through all the signs of the zodiac. Chiron is in Libra for the shortest amount of time – 1.5 years; and in Aries the longest – about 8 years. Chiron’s symbol resembles a key.

People with Jupiter/Chiron aspects

  • Jon Stewart: Jupiter conjunct Chiron
  • 50 Cent: Jupiter conjunct Chiron
  • Jennifer Lopez: Jupiter opposite Chiron
  • Katy Perry: Jupiter quincunx Chiron
  • Jim Jones: Jupiter sextile Chiron
  • David Koresh: Jupiter square Chiron
  • Warren Jeffs: Jupiter quincunx Chiron
  • Malcolm X: Jupiter square Chiron
  • Martin Luther King, Jr.: Jupiter conjunct Chiron
  • Rosa Parks: Jupiter sextile Chiron
  • Desmond Tutu: Jupiter square Chiron

Tags: , , , ,

Related Posts

About AstroFix

Working on it!

139 Responses to “Jupiter/Chiron Aspects”

  1. amoureuse says:

    goodness.. this isn;t a fun wound to have… i may ave lots o wounds but at least i dont have this.. but iknow someone who does.. and he is on the verge of self destruction.. he’s been telling me, he might just start using drugs…

    #
    • Michelle says:

      Is Neptune involved too?

      #
      • amoureuse says:

        im looking at his chart right now. he has neptune biquantile chiron.. and he is a pisces by the way..

        #
        • Michelle says:

          Which house are Jupiter and Chiron in ?

          #
          • amoureuse says:

            i wudnt know mich as i dnt know his time of birth but his jupiter is in scorpio and then his chiron is in taurus and the aspect is opposition

            #
  2. amoureuse says:

    i wudnt know mich as i dnt know his time of birth but his jupiter is in scorpio and then his chiron is in taurus and the aspect is opposition

    #
  3. Anonymous says:

    “Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, Rosa Parks, Desmond Tutu.” The best Chrion/Jupiter has to offer, tbh. Malcolm X is especially interesting to me , seeing the change he made over his life. It sucks that is image in our main consciousness is him being crazy militant because he really came full circle. IDK, some big name celebrits up there. I find it interesting, LOL. I mean 50 Cent, tho? (i get it, but still..)

    I actually have Chrion and Jupiter in the same house and in the same sign but they don’t have an aspect. I can see some of it…

    #
    • Michelle says:

      I don’t know that much about 50′s life except that he was a thug and he turned his life around. There was something about seeing that he had this aspect that made me think he might have taken some bad risks based on an inner pain, but that same risk taking might have helped him overcome the odds and improve his life.

      #
      • MsFullroller says:

        Turned his life around indeed as Malcolm X had a hard childhood. The 50s and times prior was no picnic for blacks here in America.

        This aspect is no surprise and this man had a brilliant mind.

        #
        • Michelle says:

          I agree with what you wrote about the 1950s. I was actually referring to 50 Cent when I wrote “50′s”. Sorry for the confusion.

          #
  4. LB says:

    I have the square.  It’s part of a loose T- Square with 6th house Chiron in Aquarius (as well as 5th house Moon in Aquarius) opposite 12th house Uranus in Leo – both square my 3rd house Jupiter in Scorpio which, as you know, is conjunct my Mercury/Neptune/Asteroid Lilith conjunction – part of my larger 2nd/3rd house stellium in Libra/Scorpio.  Wow, that’s a long sentence.:)   My Jupiter is also at the apex of my one Yod and is exactly parallel my Moon..

    Once again, I relate to many of your descriptions.  With Jupiter in the 3rd, I’m compelled to look beyond superficial appearances and share what I discover in the hopes it will make a positive difference.   With 6th house Chiron in Aquarius, some of the most common issues involve the careless ways in which we humans dehumanize one another in our daily encounters, as well as the immense value in the many little kindnesses we’re capable of.   

    Sometimes, I’ve communicated on behalf of those who can’t speak for themselves.  And I sometimes go too far, mostly because I *hope* people will care more than they actually do.  Along the way, I’ve had to overcome (or at least manage) my own crises of faith as I’ve shed my own naive illusions and had to face up to some of the harsher realities of life.

    As always Michelle, thanks! 

    #
    • Michelle says:

      If I’m reading that right, Moon/Chiron-Jupiter-Uranus make a t-square?

      If so, that’s pretty neat :)
      I have Jupiter/Chiron-Moon-Uranus (plus a bunch of other stuff in there too). 

      #
      • LB says:

        Yep, you read it right.  Although my Moon and Chiron are 10+ degrees apart, both of them oppose my Uranus and all of them square my Jupiter.  Plus, the Vertex/Anti-Vertex Axis is part of the opposition.  Another reason my comments are so long.

        So does that mean your Jupiter is conjunct Chiron and both are opposite Uranus and square your Moon at the apex?  If so, our placements are similar.  Especially since my Moon is parallel Jupiter.

        #
        • Michelle says:

          Yes, that’s right. 

          Is Uranus opposite the midpoint of Moon/Chiron?

          #
          • LB says:

            No, but my Vertex is at the *exact* midpoint of my Moon/Chiron, and Uranus sitting opposite is within around 3 degrees of the far midpoint, which naturally, is conjunct the Anti Vertex.  Asteroid Reiki is also conjunct this far midpoint, and both are within a few degrees of Uranus.  I love how midpoints, paralells and asteroids always add something extra to the story.

            Uranus is opposite my Moon within 9 degrees (wide orb), and opposite Chiron within 2.

            #
            • Michelle says:

              Asteroids seem to me to be most useful pulling out specific information about specific questions. If you didn’t know you wanted to do Reiki and then saw how tightly aspected the Reiki asteroid is, that might lead you to look into it further. 

              #
              • LB says:

                I’ve probably told you this story before, but back when I first started mentioning on an astrological forum how I was able to channel healing energy through my hands, a fellow reader suggested I look up asteroid Reiki.  Until then, I’d never even heard of Reiki and had no idea what it was. 

                #
                • Michelle says:

                  I think you did mention that before, but I forgot, so I’m glad you mentioned it again.

                  #
  5. Anonymous says:

    While I don’t possess any Jupiter/Chiron contacts, I really enjoyed reading this, as your interpretative possibilities are great & quite fascinating.

    It struck me how well you drive your point home by offering up tangible examples of people who have these aspects. There is such a diversity of people here: you have great civil rights leaders (justice), cult leaders (fanaticism), spiritual leaders (religion) and artists of various kinds.

    Reading about Chiron contacts is always interesting stuff. Thank so much for another stellar post!

    #
    • Michelle says:

      Thanks, Ebonystarr55. You should have seen how long this list was before I trimmed it down!
      This aspect can go either way. I imagine that overzealous animal rights or abortion activists would have this aspect strong, but also people who really believe in their message.

      Bob Barker (from the Price is Right) has the sesquiquadrate – he refused to host the Miss America pageant because they refused to remove fur as one of the prizes:

      Bob Barker is well-known for his work in animal rights. He became a vegetarian in 1979. That same year, he began promoting animal rights. Barker began ending each episode of The Price Is Right with the phrase: “Help control the pet population. Have your pets spayed or neutered.” Even after he retired, Drew Carey continued his signature sign-off. He was named national spokesman for “Be Kind to Animals Week” in May 1985. On A&E’s Biography program, he credited his wife, Dorothy Jo, with causing him to become more aware of animal rights and becoming a vegetarian, because she had done so. Bob remarked that Dorothy Jo was way ahead of her time as far as animal rights were concerned and that shortly after her death in October, 1981, he took up animal rights in order to keep doing something that she had done. Fellow game show hosts Jack Barry and Bert Convy eventually followed Barker’s lead in promoting animal rights on the air. 

      Barker hosted the Miss USA/Universe Pageants from 1967 to 1987. In 1987, he requested the removal of fur prizes and stepped down as host when those in charge of the pageant refused. 

      http://www.astrotheme.com/portraits/dVQ7q3XSS73S.htm#hbiographie

      #
  6. La_Mer says:

    is a square with an orb of 6 too wide to feel this aspect?

    #
    • Michelle says:

      No, it isn’t too wide.

      #
      • La_Mer says:

        Ahh, good to know :) So I wasn’t imagining feeling most of these things you’ve written.. Btw, love your blog, very insightful

        #
  7. Low Gale Haze says:

    I have a semi sextile between them (jupiter is in gem5° and chiron is in can6°). I expected it to be worst, but it seems fine and dandy. I guess that’s ’cause jupiter is always fine and dandy, I envy him so much.I think that everything in this post apply to me, but the religious maniac part. Even though primitive religions are what I like the most, but as study subject and a way to find the truth, since they are the eldest and are much closer to our offspring. And there’s something animal and wild about them, something we tried to forget about ourselves and labeled as evil through middle ages. People are so annoying when they deny themselves.

    #
  8. Anonymous says:

    i have jupiter in sag opposite chiron in gemini by 1 degree. jupiter conjunct my ascendant (1st house) and chiron conjunct my descendant (7th house).

    my most abundant joy comes with a twinge of pain (knowing it will end, or feeling so overwhelmed by it). alternately, my deepest despair is followed by an insight, a breakthrough, that makes me wiser.

    i think it makes my relationships tough because i yo-yo between confident and being insecure, so stable people have a hard time understanding me and eventually get impatient with my ‘wild mood swings.’ otherwise it’s the unstable people who are drawn to it, and that never ends well. they either make me to be their savior/guru and refuse to see my insecurities/pains. or they think i’m a helpless, miserable person who needs to lighten up. it’s really strange.

    #
    • Michelle says:

      I like your new photo :)

      Is your Moon involved with Jupiter or Chiron?

      #
      • Anonymous says:

        tanx! my moon is at 12 leo so it’s a wide trine to jupiter. also jupiter is conjunct uranus, moon conjunct mars. with such a fiery chart ppl tend to think i’m immune to pain :/

        #
    • billow says:

      I really like the way you pointed to the polarization of the opposition.

      #
      • billow says:

        unsunghiro, you got me thinking about my problem with mars uranus energy types.  They probably tip both my natal chart oppositions at the same time.  I do believe I am learning to put natal mars rx to work in slowing it down so I don’t get dragged into the fray.  If the person runs me over anyway, I will uranianly dissassociate from them.  Thanks for the inspiration.

        #
  9. Robin Joy Dore says:

    I have Jupiter Rx Taurus 26’25″ semisextile -2 separating Chiron Rx Aries 28’29″.
     Jupiter is in the 11th and Chiron is in my 10th house.

    Complete strangers used to suddenly tell me there life story and then walk away. I’ve  met people who are damaged emotionally,but who try to show a brave face all of the time, never allowing themselves to cry and expressing much anger. some of them I’ve helped to learn how to express there pain and/or they felt comfortable expressing themselves,joy and/or pain, around me.

    I believe that these things are the most accurate about me…

    Feeling pained by people who are not comfortable expressing pain and sadness.Helping others to find natural joy. Real joy as opposed to forced joy and fake smiles.Other people go to you for advice and counsel.Using your wisdom to guide others rather than to dominate others.Finding your own truth. Knowing that the truth you’ve been told is flawed or skewed.Healing comes through discovering what is truly meaningful in your life. Healing comes through remaining open and optimistic, and keeping your sense of humor.

    #
  10. Joswan says:

    I have this :) square
    and this is the aspect of how I self labeled myself as “Saturnian” person who loves limitation and hard work.

    That because my Jupiter wounded badly..in 11th, retrogade, square Uranus, square chiron.

    Optimism is a far reaching subject to me, non concrete! The world is too painful to be overly cheeky, joyous or plain irresponsible, like Jupiter who likes to gamble, whatever the occasion is.

    One thing for sure..I can’t pooh pooh Jupiter for too long. He holds the key of my 9th and 12 th house! 9th has Mars and Neptune (the source of my inspiration and talent) 12th has my n.node
    Jupiter is one of the greatest teacher in Universe too, alongside with Saturn ^^

    #
    • Michelle says:

      Jupiter holds the keys my 7th and 4th. I had my Jupiter return recently and it wasn’t all presents and parades.

      #
      • Joswan says:

        ^^ Is your Jupiter rx? Maleficted? I forgot your chart and I dont have it with me right now :) hehe

        #
        • Michelle says:

          My Jupiter is in a t-square. It’s in Taurus on the 8/9 cusp.

          #
          • Joswan says:

            Your Jupiter T-square! A tension with possible opening end :)
            Mr. Jupiter is a God of favor. His method is slightly biased, that’s what I dont really like about him.

            Btw..outside my window at night, I always see him shone upon me as the brightest star in the sky.
            Thanks for my astronomy software, I can detect that sky object as Jupiter not a star ^^
            When I sleep under Jupiter’s light every night, don’t u think I’ll get luckier each day? hehe :p

            #
            • Michelle says:

              Jupiter is biased. Also, I think he tends to make things “too much” or “inflated” or “overblown” more than he makes them lucky or good.

              #
              • billow says:

                I was just thinking about my 10th house “lucky good” planets, sun and jupiter.  And how much responsibility comes with those 10th house natal placements of mine.  It’s really not as simple as the sun or jupiter or any other one planet I think.  It’s turned out to be quite complex, and a lot of work (virgo 10th?)

                #
                • Michelle says:

                  I don’t envy 10th house placements. People I know who have them often do attain some measure of success but they also often end up sacrificing a personal life.

                  #
                  • billow says:

                    I’m kinduv trying to balance that.  10th house placements oppose rx mars in 4th.  I mean I’m in no way successful according to the book, like big status, big money, big house, big toys or the like.  But there is a drive to meet the demands of commitment to larger group goals.  And I like the feeling of accomplishment of goals.  But I’ve come to realize how driven I’ve been by external demands and have been a bit sluggish as I now work at remaining grounded in myself toward moving from my center rather than from outside stimulus pushing my automoton into action.  I had to redefine where I was moving to action from because  I was no longer comfortable living outside my body. At least that’s what it felt like, being outside my body.   Does that make any sense?

                    So my personal success had to be balanced with that ever so important core 4th.  It’s almost like my personal success is growing out of the 4th?

                    #
                    • Michelle says:

                      It’s almost like my personal success is growing out of the 4th?I like that.

                      #
  11. Astrobie says:

    I really liked the description but I am just wondering how much Chiron rays will impact on us, as we know that its small comet ?

    #
    • Michelle says:

      Does size matter? If it did the Sun would be the most important body in the chart, followed by Jupiter, and that’s not the general consensus.

      #
    • billow says:

      Another for what it’s worth for the ever questioning Astrobie.  Bumped into a book called Chiron this week, by Martin Lass.  His “sweeping statment” in the intro states that chiron’s discovery “augurs a revloution in consciousness and consciousness’s connection to health and disease and function and dysfunction–a revolution in the likes the world has not known in over two thousand years.”

      It’s a book I will have to read cover to cover to get.  No easy reference on this one for me.  About the ray, he writes “Chiron’s energetic origin may well lie outside the local Seven Ray origin of the rest of the solar system.  Psychologically, this means chiron is far from home, isolated, abandoned, a loner, and so on.  However, it also offers Chiron an extra solar perspective for reconnection to consciousness outside the egg sac of our solar system (solar magnetosphere).”

      He sees chiron as the key to the chart that pulls his clients chart together.  The gift in the wound .  I guess it must be important or it wouldn’t bother us so much.  But he also says that not everyone is conscious of the wound.  It depends on whether and how it is aspected or not.  But for clients on the higher consciousness tracks it is useful.

      He seems to refer to the hard aspects either natal or in transit as when the wound gets thrown in our face and the soft aspects as presenting opportunities to heal.   I’d track that for myself if I wanted to really look at chiron’s energy, but yuck, it’s like he writes we don’t like looking at chiron because we look at the wound and not the healing. 

      #
      • Michelle says:

        Thank you for sharing that excerpt, billow. That sounds like a good book!

        #
        • Michelle says:

          Also, it does seem like some people automatically “get” the concept of Chiron’s wounding and other people just don’t (at least until a major transit to Chiron).

          #
          • billow says:

            And I don’t like fessing up to much of it.  : P

            #
  12. billow says:

    Quincunx.  Most of what is written above I have experienced or still experience.  Perhaps jup being in virgo has helped me to parse through it all.  The big picutre is so necessary and it is ever expanding.  The sad thing can be that the truth of a situation can be pretty darn sad and disappointing.  But it is what it is.

    The saddest acknowlegement I’ve had to make along the way is that I’ve had no mentor.  And I never will.   There are always those who will tell me what to do, but that’s not really a mentor is it?  Support is the process of finding and comes from a wide area network.  Boo hoo has to be sucked up and dealt with in silence. 

    There is no choice but ethics.  I learned awfully young how quickly unethical actions will turn around and bite me in the butt.  Not alot of slack.  It hardly seems fair considering what some get away with.  No matter how many dollars or shiny objects or promises are dangled in front of me, there will be a high price to pay for unethical actions.  Like I said earlier, it hardly seems fair sometimes.

    #
    • Michelle says:

      I’ve been searching for mentors for different aspects of my life too. I had my Jupiter return recently, on the 8/9 cusp.

      #
      • LB says:

        I’ve always longed for mentors too, but never have found them, at least not to any great extent.  Instead, most of my guidance has come through bits and pieces of reading I’ve done over the years, which is not the same as having an intimate relationship with another human being.  Ironically, I find as I’m getting older, I’m more sought after as a sort of mentor, which mostly surprises me.

        My last Jupiter Return was really rough.  There was no one to turn to for help in dealing with all of my responsibilities,  and I felt overwhelmed, disillusioned and lonely.  But I did learn a lot.

        #
        • billow says:

          Mentoring comes naturally to me.  I think that I value it because I never had it.  Because I value it, it’s what I give. 

          #
        • billow says:

          The “bits and pieces” maybe, I’m thinking, are the way we find our own truth and our own unique path?

          #
          • LB says:

            Definitely, billow.  My path has also been forged through direct experience, which is often significantly different from what I (and others) have been led to believe.  With Jupiter in Scorpio/3rd (conjunct Neptune/Mercury), I’ve had to be willing to dive beneath the surface to get to the truth.

            #
        • MsFullroller says:

          I’ve always longed for mentors as well and not having them to a great extent. I’ve just developed a friendship that’s a bit like mentor but more like a big sister.  Maybe this aspect suggests especially the hard ones, that we are OJT mentors. lol  I guess if mentors were always available to us, we’d never take the training wheels off the bike and goes along with what Billow said about the bits and pieces.

          To a small degree, I’m being sought after as a mentor of sorts, by younger folks and folks older than me which really surprises me. Maybe that’s the square from Saturn/Mercury/Chiron conjunction in the 7th?

          You’ve got me wondering about my Jupiter return which will be in 2013 I think. Jupiter is at the top of my t-square opposing the Galactic Center we were talking about in another post.

          #
          • LB says:

            I’ve seen your YouTube channel MsFullroller, and based on your words of wisdom on various subjects I’d say you’re very much a mentor.:)

            The hardest thing about my own Jupiter Return was that although I was forced to walk the walk, most all of the people and structures I’d been taught to rely on ended up to be far less reliable than I would’ve ever believed possible – my illusions crumbled.  And I’m talking about basic things we all take for granted.  One of the hardest jobs I had to take on involved the in-depth researching of various medical issues, so I could not only keep my elderly mother alive (Jupiter is square and parallel my Moon), but also ensure some quality of life for her at the end.  My Jupiter is connected to the 2nd, so it required a lot of my own resources.  There were lots of Scorpio themes.

            So if your Jupiter is in Gemini, maybe your own Jupiter Return will have a Gemini flavor.  Hopefully, your opposition to the Galactic Center will help tune you in to higher frequencies. :) 

            #
            • billow says:

              “crumbling illusions” .  .  .  the road to self reliance.  Sigh.  I relate to that.  Do you think maybe just maybe we expected too much?  Or like we heard or perceived from what we heard from the mouth of the “reliable one” that they were the end all only to find out that there is more more more and further and further to go all the time.

              #
              • LB says:

                No, I don’t think I expected too much.  My expectations were reasonable.  But I did come to realize how careless  and complacent most people can be.  And also, how easily (and blindly) we all fall into step and thus make ourselves accomplices.

                #
                • billow says:

                  Oh, I thought perhaps what seems to be careless and complacent to me might be the best they could do or are willing to do. It doesn’t mean I have to hang around it though.   I must be going soft around the edges again.

                  #
                  • LB says:

                    I think we may be talking about different things, billow.

                    None of us is perfect, which means everyone makes mistakes now and then.  Even when doing our best, we all fall short at least some of the time.  What I’m referring to is the harm caused by routine carelessness born out of an unwillingness or inability to deal with our responsibilities in a mindful way.  Neither incompetence nor laziness would seem to be very good excuses for ongoing careless behavior.  Reasons, yes – excuses, no – especially when we’re talking about people’s well-being.

                    Some of these behaviors have become so deeply ingrained, they’ve become almost acceptable, even institutionalized – not many are willing to rock the boat.  And unfortunately, moving on isn’t always an option.  There are certain situations in which we have little choice about whether or not to participate.

                    #
                    • billow says:

                      I think what I’m getting to is that there is not alot I can do about it.  I have wasted valuable energy fighting what I find disagreeable to my sensibilities instead of joining together with those on a similar track.  It is probably easy for me to say that at the present since I have jettisoned off many people who caused much pain just for the sport of it.  Heading into a new career area, I want to develop healthy connections with like minded folks.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      When I was providing care for my elderly, dying parent, she depended on care from a variety of sources – whether it was pleasant or not, there were certain realities to be dealt with.  And in order for her not to suffer more than she already was, I had to become fully involved, even with systems and individuals who did share my own sensibilities. 

                      We’re all interconnected and dependent upon one another to a much greater extent than we realize – one medical emergency will illustrate this point.  And whether or not people choose to act responsibly and with compassion, each individual is still culpable for their actions or lack thereof.  We humans can do far better, but unless we all start expecting more, we’ll never get it. 

                      In my own career and personal relationships, I’ve chosen to leave behind those who are not on the same path, but with my mother I didn’t have that luxury.  And there will always be certain areas of life where once again, I’m faced with the necessity of depending on others who may not share my ideals or work ethic..  Such is the nature of life. 

                      I’ll leave it at that and hope this last comment of mine finally makes sense.. :) 

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      In my first paragraph, I meant to write that I had to become involved with systems and individuals who did *NOT* share my own sensibilities.

                      The way it’s written now contradicts what it is I was trying to say.   I should know better than to type when I’m half-asleep.  :)

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      I got the typo.  You express yourself very clearly, so a typo in this case, is just a typo to me.  You sleepy head you.

                      It does make sense and I do understand your frustration.  I do believe that is why I gave up expectations.  I try to enter situations with an open mind and make the best of it.  If I get bogged down, I bail. 

                      As far as dealing with inefficiency .  .  .  somewhere along the line that has become more of the norm in the last years.  I try to leave air space so that I am prepared to walk with the person through the transaction no matter how difficult.  Alot of patience seems to be required to get work done these days. 

                      Medical stuff and incompetency is rough.  Most folks I know on the receivng end in the medicine conglomerate now really need to do their homework, research, and pull their sources together to get the best care they can.  And the folks I know who work in the medical profession are working short staff, like everyone else.  Less people are forced to do more work as best they can.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      Yesterday’s ongoing, online conversation stirred up strong memories of the past, reminding me of how much work remains to be done in order to really change things for the better.  My spiritual faith (Jupiter/asteroid Lilith/Mercury/Neptune conjunct) means nothing if I don’t put it into daily practice.

                      Often times my past efforts haven’t had the lasting effect I would’ve liked to have seen, mostly because I’ve tried to transform corruption from *within* the systems.  Nothing wrong with that – but really what’s often most effective in creating lasting change, is the strong external pressure brought to bear by many voices speaking out in unison.     

                      Then coincidentally, I received an email alert this morning (from an organization I belong to) urging socially responsible investors – including those of us with retirement/pension plans – to divest from health insurance companies altogether.  Not only did I do that, I also began my own email campaign.  Don’t know why I didn’t think of it myself . . . scratches head.

                      This is a perfect example of how my 3rd house Jupiter in Scorpio (having to do with insurance, among other things) at the apex of my T-square (with 6th house Chiron in Aquarius opposite 12th house Uranus in Leo) works best. :)

                      #
              • Michelle says:

                There is no  end point. Even the experts have to keep learning, or fall behind.

                #
            • Michelle says:

              Jupiter in Gemini in the 10th sounds like a teaching job.

              #
              • LB says:

                I thought that too, although I was thinking it might be in a less structured capacity.  Either way, I can see how MsFullroller’s words (communications) might somehow receive more public recognition and also bring more responsibilities connected with them. 

                #
                • MsFullroller says:

                  I have always felt drawn to teaching in some capacity and you are right, it would definitely have to be in a less structured capacity. That makes me think that my Taurus NN in the 9th goes right along with this as well. Y’all have given me something to think about.  On the other hand, I tend to doubt myself (Saturn) getting very nervous in front of people. It’s gotten better over the years (Saturn again) but I still prefer to be the power behind a throne of my own making. lol

                  #
                  • Michelle says:

                    North Node in the 9th is partly about learning that you’ve finished learning certain things and you’re ready to teach what you’ve learned (rather than staying the perpetual student). Also, it’s about trusting your intuition. Taurus in the 9th = unshakable intuition.

                    #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      The perpetual student describes me to the tee. I just can’t help wondering if in a prior life I was persecuted for what I knew or taught.

                      “Unshakable intuition”  I’ll have a Jupiter supersize order of that with a large side order of confidence and courage please!! This is in addition to my other order. Yeah, I need it bad. lol ;-)

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Are you feeling the effects of Uranus in Aries? I’m feeling a slow build of a really intense independent streak. I feel like, when Uranus moves into Aries permanently next year, I’m going to be extremely rebellious and “go my own way.”

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Yes most definitley with Uranus preceded by my Progressed Moon which entered Aries in Early 2010. Asteriod Ariadne is at 0 Aries and Vulcan is at 4 Aries. Uranus was 6 degrees away from my Sun before it went retrograde. Having Uranus & Pluto rising, an intense independent streak has always been there but deep below the surface. As it transited the 7th and now the 8th, it refuses to stay hidden any longer. So I totally get what you are feeling.

                      Is Uranus going to dip back into Pisces for a bit?  

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Uranus doesn’t get to Pisces. It stays at 00 Aries from mid November through early April. For some reason I though it went back into Pisces. I’m actually relieved.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Me too though that does mean it’s last visit of my 7th will be for longer than I’d hoped. 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      This may be too forward, but how’s your marriage?

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Not forward at all. We got married while Uranus was transiting my 7th. The best way I can put it is that it has progressed into something that is more reflective of who we are as individuals that decided to make our union official in the eyes of current society.  Gotta keep it real by saying it has not been easy during Uranus’ transit. It’s been a transformation of me and how I relate not only to my husband but how I relate to everyone. Now there is nothing like an open marriage or anything like that ( a huge hell no for my Pluto and 8th house Sun). It’s somewhat non-traditional roles and freedom to be ourselves within the marriage. DH has Sun conjunct Uranus in Cancer with my Sun tri-septile Uranus. Just that makes us a non traditional couple and we were together for many years prior to getting married.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      My boyfriend and I start dating right before Uranus entered my 7th house (he has progressed Uranus in his 7th house). 

                      You know why I thought Uranus was going back into Pisces? Because I was confusing that with Uranus going into my 8th house. Uranus doesn’t leave my 7th until April. It brushed up my 8th house cusp this summer.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      I gotcha. :)  So you guys have got that Uranian flavor in your relationship as well. I’m guessing that the 7th house transit was not much a “surprise’ for y’all, just unearthing of that already present energy.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Actually, MsFullroller, we broke up in July right after that big eclipse. I’ve been thinking about writing a post on breakup astrology, but the whole thing is too close to my heart right now. I am completely disoriented after 11 years of being part of a “we.” I wonder if Uranus in Aries is urging me to become free and independent of other people’s “stuff.”

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Please accept this big ole hug from me (((((Michelle)))). I’m so sorry to hear that but I know exactly how you feel. I definitely think that is what Uranus is doing for Virgos and Virgo risings as we tend to take on other people’s stuff. I also think that was part of Saturn’s lesson thru our 1st house and now thru the 2nd.  That’s why I said earlier about Uranus being very tough thru the 7th. I’m learning to not only keep myself out of their stuff,  but not take it on from the jump thru folks manipulating.  

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Thanks. I can’t write much more – running out of room!

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      OMG!!!!  11 years!!!!!  It takes time.  Uranus conjuncting Venus isn’t it?  Have I said OMG!!!!

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I had a slew of intense stuff on my Venus, including that cardinal grand cross last year. My Venus is 00 Aries.

                      #
          • Michelle says:

            Jupiter is going to amplify whatever it touches in your chart. For me, it was a need for emotional freedom.

            #
            • billow says:

              Hmm.  I’ll have to think about that.  Later though.  Got classes now.  This post has really been a workout for me.  Just like that darn jupiter.

              #
            • MsFullroller says:

              Indeed it has! Jupiter aspects everything in my chart except Mars (that’s probably a good thing) and the angles, so it’s a need for freedom all the way around. Thank goddess for Saturn and Virgo rising because I feel it disciplines, keeping me out of a whole heap of trouble that I could very easily get myself into.

              #
              • LB says:

                Does Jupiter rule the cusp of your IC (and Descendant)?  If so, you probably feel its effects on your angles as well.  I think I do.  But then again, the rulers of all of my angles are conjunct. 

                #
                • MsFullroller says:

                  Yep!I tend to forget about the traditional rulers.

                  #
                  • LB says:

                    Me too sometimes. :)

                    #
              • Michelle says:

                Is the pile up of planets in Libra affecting you right now?

                #
                • billow says:

                  Sneaking in here.  Big effect.  New moon pileup right on my natal Merc, trining natal chiron, and sextiling natal uranus now conjuncted by transiting mars.  Ye ha!  I love a no brainer.  Just had to share.

                  #
                  • Michelle says:

                    All of those Libra planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus and Saturn) fell in my 2nd house opposing all of my planets in Aries in the 8th house. Big focus on money-makin’. I came across two new employment opportunities. My fantasy of having several part-time jobs to satisfy my Gemini MC seems to be getting closer to being a reality.

                    #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Nothing like what you’ve got going on. Just that feeling of irritability when Saturn was directly opposite my Sun.  I am feeling stronger in what I value even though it’s not popular with others.

                      I did the several part time jobs thang when I was younger and pretty much enjoyed it.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Saturn will oppose my Sun in the next week or so. My energy is incredibly low right now. I was sick the entire week last week. The word I used to describe how I felt was “depleted.” I can’t wait for Saturn to leave my 2nd house (it still has to oppose Mercury and Chiron).

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Energy wise I’m fine. I was more ill and tired during Saturn’s transit of my 1st when it was quincunx my Sun/Mars conjunction than the opposition. I forgot it’s opposing my Mars right now, so maybe that’s why I’ve been a bit irritable. Saturn still has to oppose 3 asteroids in my 8th so I’m wondering how that’s gonna be. Like you, I’m ready for it to be out of the 2nd but bracing for Neptune and SN in the 3rd. 

                      Now as far as motivation…WTHIT??!!! It’s been on a extended world tour or somewhere other than with me since Saturn’s 1st house visit as well. If ya happen to run into my motivation anywhere, please send it back home next day FedX!! I promise to reimburse the cost of shipping and a lil extra…jeez enough already! lol

                      Kidding aside (not really though), I’m sure this is in prep for whatever is coming our way. Otherwise we’d probably be running around, all engines blazing at top speed and really depleted. 

                      Hope you feel better soon and take it easy…you are being forced to do so. ;-)

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I think it’s prep too. Saturn will hit my natal Uranus and North Node in the 3rd. I’m actually very curious what that’s going to be like. Because I have a natal Moon/Saturn conjunction, my progressed Moon and transiting Saturn follow each other around my chart. My progressed Moon just entered Sagittarius this week, and my progressed 3rd house.

                      Transiting Saturn made a conjunction to natal Pluto and squared natal Mars at the same time this summer. 

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Do you have interesting new/full moon experiences?  Or do they pass unnoticed?  I’m not sure how that would work with moon saturn.  It could go either way?

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      It depends. I think, like most people, I experience them more intensely when they are aspecting something in my chart. That last new moon in Libra was right on my 2nd house cusp at 5 Libra.

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      I always liked the temp job market, but then temp to hire got to be the norm.  Aaaargh!  Not being a member of the company I worked for kept me out of the petty political arena.  And moving around was always fun.  Experiencing other cultures or in some cases, other planets.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I like it too. It makes me feel free. I don’t have to invest so much life energy into caring about all the stupid stuff that goes along with working.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      I hear ya there! However, I’m feeling the same way regarding running my own business. As a former office manager for a small business, I had much more on my plate than running the office and saw first hand what the business owner had to go through. I want no more part of that.  I know that sentence is not grammatically correct but it states exactly where I am in my life right now. I’m also thinking since the 3rd house is daily commerce, with my Neptune conjunct SN and a empty 2nd house except for Earth (not even an asteroid discovery as of yet) there, it’s a BTDT thang.

                      So my confusion comes from my packed Aries/Mars ruled 8th that contains Eris/Sun/Mars/Juno/Karma/Ceres and a few other asteroids. All that Aries finds it difficult to rely on anyone. lol     

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      Have you tried inputting your birth info at Serennu.com, under the Ephemeris selection?  Then if you check the box beside “Include first 1,000 asteroids”, you might get lucky and find one residing in your 2nd house, forming a telling aspect to another natal placement.  Or maybe you’ve already tried that.

                      Does asteroid Karma form a close aspect to anything in your natal chart?  This is one of the asteroids I pay close attention to, although I don’t know if everyone feels its effects like I do.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I wonder how the whole “relying on oneself” thing is going to work when Uranus transits the 8th house. 

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      My thoughts exactly Michelle!

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      I wonder. :)  

                      Uranus rules the cusp of my 6th, and also my Moon, Vertex and Chiron.  During Uranus’ transit through my 7th, by sheer coincidence, I’ve formed a number of friendships with women who are either alternative healers and/or are employed in the medical field!  I didn’t notice the trend until yesterday, when I commented to my husband how most of my close friends right now are nurse practitioners.  When the transit first started, I was brought into contact with nurse practitioners (all were female) in a professional capacity – those first contacts were not nearly as positive as the ones I now enjoy.  They come and they go – I don’t have any long-term expectations.  

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Scorpio rules the 8th and Uranus is exalted in Scorpio isn’t it? What does that say? 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Those are my natal positions, so… I’m expecting the unexpected. I’m also expecting to get way deeper into some things – I don’t know what exactly. I’m expecting to have sudden flashes about events/people/situations. I’m wondering how it will affect my interest in astrology as well, because Uranus rules astrology. Uranus already formed a conjunction to my Venus, and it’ll happen again in a month or so. Uranus will then square Mars, oppose Pluto, conjunct Eris, BML, Sun, Mercury, Chiron, and Pallas (and then move into Taurus). I’m kind of excited really.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Thanks for that website! None of the asteroids in Libra have been talked about anywhere. But there is one that is opposite my Sun named Pamina. The story of the “The Magic Flute’ in which Pamina is one of the characters holds some interesting tidbits though.

                      Karma is sextile my 10th house Jupiter/Astraea conjunction by 22 & 2 degrees 15 minutes respectively and 6th house Venus by 1 degree. Ceres is conjunct by 3 degrees and another asteroid 3 degrees infront. Sedna is 5 degrees conjunct at 29 degrees Aries. Do you pay attention to the transit of Karma as well as the transits to it?

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      I look at transits as well as secondary progessions. Not all transits are significant, but some are, especially when combined with exact progressed aspects.  But then my natal Karma is in the 12th (the house of Karma) and forms a tight grand trine with my 4th house South Node and 8th house Saturn.  Right when progressed Karma was exactly conjunct my natal 12th house Pluto, my own karmic adventure – which specifically involved caring for my mother – began.  At the time the aspect was exact, I even had a dream about Karma.  I didn’t discover there was an asteroid by that name until many years later. 

                      I don’t think transits of Karma are necessarily negative, although they can be very challenging, particularly if we’re not mindful.  For me, asteroid Karma always teaches me something about personal responsibility as it relates to healing old destructive patterns.

                      Now you’ve got me curious about Pamina – I’ll have to look up it up. :)  I think asteroids that form tight aspects usually tell us something specific about ourselves, even if we don’t immediately  understand what the message is. 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Once again I’ve forgotten where my Karma is…

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      It’s #3811. Since mine is in the 8th, it’s a constant reminder…long before I knew there was an asteroid by that name. For some reason I’ve always felt it’s presence especially when I got out of line. Can’t do what some can do and getaway with it. lol

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      My karma is 11 Libra, conjunct Pluto and square Mars. It loosely opposes my Sun/Venus midpoint.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      I forget, Michelle – is Pluto the ruler of your 3rd house cusp? 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Yes, it is. Pluto rules the 3rd cusp and Mercury in is the 8th house.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      I forgot, your Karma directly opposes my Sun. You’ve reminded me to check the midpoint chart I got from astro.com. OMGes, my Karma is on my Venus/Jupiter midpoint by a mere 51 minutes! I don’t understand midpoints, but this may be the “key” to the closed door of understanding  my 8th house  especially since  Jupiter/Chiron both aspect Venus. Hot diggity dog!!

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Interesting, pileup in 11th.  More intrapersonal work inspired by interpersonal stuff.  It’s the upper hemisphere of my natal chart.  I am thinking I am going to get down to more tangible manifestation as the personal planets move into the lower hemisphere?  Or am I all washed up on that.  I guess either way I could just get down to it and make it happen. 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Are you experiencing indecision regarding long term goals?

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      I am overall  not a long term goal person.  I am a head in the general direction and get there person.  I can work toward a certain goal but usually it gets blended with a bunch of other stuff on the way and I end up somewhere that I wouldn’t have if I didn’t take the direction I took, but it is nothing that I ever imagined would happen.  Whew, that’s alotta words in one sentence.

                      Right now I am focussing on finishing this 3 year 2 year degree by summer.  And I do have goals for my home and yarden.  Improvements and such.  Am finally getting some energy back to be more aggressive with that.

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Short answer:  No.  Unless you consider any self talk about what the heck am I doing here on this planet, then the answer would be Yes.  But I am trying to lighten up about that.   

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      What I really meant to say, is good for you.  Go get it girl!

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      We’ll see :)

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      Not so much with the New Moon (which fell just shy of my 2nd), but Mercury, Venus, Saturn (and now the Sun) are all piled up in my 2nd, joining my natal NN, Venus, Sun (and Ceres) and opposing my 8th house SN, BM Lilith, Sedna and Eris/Osculating Lilith.  Transiting BM Lilith and Eris are almost conjunct my natal SN; then they’ll join my BM Lilith/Sedna.

                      Things are moving slowly but surely for me on the career front – it feels like a time when I need to work hard at establishing myself, without expecting a lot of material compensation.  Thankfully, all of these transits either sextile or trine my natal 4th house Saturn, so that helps.

                      I’m glad you’re finding a way to turn your career fantasies into  a reality, Michelle.:)   My Gemini MC would also love to earn a living from several different sources of income, as holding down one full-time job no longer seems doable or desirable. 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Things are moving very slowly for me too – but at least they’re moving!

                      One full-time job, more than anything, isn’t desirable to me right now. Also, unfortunately, there’s no longer much assurance that, if you put your heart and soul into your work, you’ll be compensated and taken care of. Businesses are doing their best to stay afloat and employee welfare isn’t a top priority anymore. 

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      Employee welfare has been on the bottom of the list for a very long time now. If it even makes it on the list at all. :(  And customer welfare is not part of the agenda either.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      I’m glad they’re moving for you, Michelle.  Slow can be good sometimes. :)

                      Your whole last paragraph is so very true.  Things have changed dramatically and it’s not over yet.  It’s a whole new world out there – no longer a place where we can expect to dedicate our lives to a long-term employer in exchange for full benefits (health, dental, sick-pay, vacation) and a pension when we retire.  And it’s certainly not a world where, no matter how hard we work, there are any guarantees we’ll be able to afford certain “necessities” on our own.

                      When the business I worked for (and helped to grow) for twenty years finally closed, I received only a month’s severance – I was fortunate in that they did at least, make a modest contribution to a 403(b) retirement plan while I was working, so that will help some when I get older.  My husband experienced much the same when the business he worked for closed.   

                      Things are much different now than they were for my parents’ generation.  I wish more people got that.  I’m glad you do.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      OMG LB that is (excuse the language) f’ed up, however no surprise whatsoever. The only reason DH got a slightly better severance when the plant he worked for closed was because of the law requiring it for a company that shuts down a place of employment with more than a certain number of employees.

                      Pension?!! What’s that? This is what makes me very angry with the older generation because many flat out refuse to see that things are not the way they were for them, never will be and frankly was an illusion the entire time.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      Yep, it was definitely messed up – much more than I’ve shared.  But the good thing is I’m not a part of it anymore.  Yippee, I’m free . . . free! :):):)

                      As far as how much the world has changed, there are even some younger folks (maybe those who are doing well for themselves?) who either don’t care or else refuse to see.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      This is true. Those young folk that are doing well because of being given a silver spoon in their mouths by Mommy and Daddy would be in that category. But I think those young folk that did not have that privilege and are doing well are giving back.

                      However, I still think much of the burden falls on the elders. They want the respect, but that must be earned, not because one is of a certain chronological age. I know that personal responsibility is of great importance and I fully advocate for it but I think part of why some of the young folk don’t care is because they have not been taught by the elders. They are operating out of ignorance. Ignorance begetting ignorance. Also many young folks realize the severity of the situation, feeling like they have no hope in cleaning up a mess that was not of their making, with the ones who made the mess holding on to positions of authority with a kung fu grip death grip.     

                      The crap is really deep.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      “The crap is really deep.”

                      I agree.  It took a lot of people to make it, and it will take a lot of people to clean it up.

                      #
  13. MsFullroller says:

    “..Joy and pain, like sunshine and rain. Laughing through the tears.”

    LOL, I zeroed in on that immediately.  I wonder if Frankie Beverly has this aspect. Just checked that out. He has Jupiter and Chiron in Scorpio but they are 12 degrees apart. Whew, with both in Scorpio no wonder he did that song. Whomever said “you gotta laugh to keep from crying” probably did as well.

    “..Too much optimism.”

    I’ll take a triple order of that on the rocks to go please!!! lol

    10th house Jupiter in Gemini square 7th house Saturn/Mercury/Chiron/True Lilith in Pisces.

    #
    • MsFullroller says:

      I need that order stat since I’m always being told to not take things so seriously and to lighten up. lol

      I relate to a large (Jupiter) number of the descriptions in this post! Another great one Michelle.

      #
    • billow says:

      singin in the rain  singin in the rain  what a wonderful feeling I’m happy again. 

      No use gettin down, only have to get up again.  Taking it in stride is really important to me I think. 

      #
  14. MissFoggy says:

    Reading this I guess my 8th house conjunction would mean “wounding through putting too much faith in other people’s values.”  And then, healing comes through having more faith in my own values. 
    This makes sense. 
    Thank you.

    #
    • Michelle says:

      That’s one good way of putting it. Thank you for stopping by, MissFoggy.

      #
  15. Lu says:

    Such a good post. was going to quote a few parts from it but felt so overwhelmed by reading it. I have Jupiter in Aries conjunct Chiron on the 11th house. And I am an Aquarian by the way.

    #
    • AstroFix says:

      Thank you for reading, Lu. Did anything in particular resonate with you?

      #
  16. Ursa says:

    I have Chiron/Jupiter conjunct in Pisces, in the eleventh house. This is really a strain on me since I have great intuition and can really see the injustices in the world. I have gone through my life knowing I needed a ’cause’. I have finally decided to channel my energy and open a non-profit:)

    #
  17. ludwig says:

    I have a semisquare with Chiron. And a Saturn and a Uranus in conflict. I believe that Jupiter and Saturn in Chiron in my personality shows very precisely I need to put more expansion in my life and be less restrictive through my life.

    #

Leave a reply ...