Neptune/Pluto Aspects

closeup oceanDeeply unconscious and difficult to define processes. The darker side of life becomes glamorous. We are dazzled by secrets and taboos. We can’t look away from the wreckage. We are mesmerized by the age we live in. We are fascinated by secrets and mysteries. We become obsessed with penetrating the unknown. Deep experiences of mysticism. Powerful unconscious forces. The flow that our collective survival urge carries us in. A weakening of the survival instinct. Being carried away by forces beyond our control. The dazzling darkness. The magic of deep discovery. Washed into the depths. What lurks beneath the surface. Intense yet barely perceptible changes in consciousness. Purging the collective psychic toxicity. Purging our illusions. Immersion into the unconscious. Moving deep into the flow. Hypnotic. Letting go of control. Letting go of our collective garbage. Healing our collective baggage. Carried out by the undertow. Swept out to sea. Deeply unconscious healing processes.

Becoming numb to pain and suffering. Becoming desensitized to trauma. The ability of those in power to lull us to sleep. The insidious power of media. Indiscriminately absorbing powerful subconscious messages. The permeation of the subconscious through mass messaging. Power to influence masses through indirect methods. The ability, and controlled use, of images to reach the subconscious. The unconscious processing of disturbing imagery. The power of the arts.

Renewal through spiritual cleansing. Renewal through compassion and giving of oneself. Transformation through developing receptivity to higher forces. Overhauling illusions while remaining deeply idealistic. Becoming aware of psychic powers. The controlled development of psychic powers. The ability to influence others through indirect psychic methods – for better or worse.

Pervasive drug use. Sex loses all boundaries. Sexuality regains its ties to spirituality and mysticism. The slow, yet complete disintegration of existing taboos and power structures over the course of a lifetime. We lose perspective on what is important for our survival. The powerful become vulnerable. The vulnerable become powerful. Deep illusions. Dissolving power boundaries. Illusions about power. Illusions about the amount of control we have. We are obsessed with escape. We plunge into the depths of nearly every facet of life. We have the opportunity to develop compassion when presented with taboo subjects. We have the opportunity to dissolve attitudes that need to be regenerated. Transformation through letting go. Learning to accept the inevitable transformation of the age. Faceless and nameless forces.

Liquid resources. Drilling for oil. Being careless with our resources. Forgetting what it is like to struggle. Letting experiences of pain fade away. Going into a deep trance. Relinquishing control and going along for the ride. We let our power slip through our fingers. Losing our grip on reality. Confusion about what is important. Free for alls.

Compassion offers catharsis. Compassion for those experiencing pain and trauma. Compassion is a resource. Deep sympathy for people in states of transition. Using psychology for healing. Using psychology to delve into the unconscious. Psychology only adds to the confusion. Going too deep causing some to lose realistic boundaries. Lost in transformation. Losing perspective on what we are transforming. Inability to come to a consensus. A sense of control gained through knowing ourselves in our depths.

The unknown and the unknowable. An age in which we probe what was previously unimaginable – good and bad. We have opportunities to re-imagine what life can be like. The power to transform the world through focused vision. The power of imagination. False endings. Fake deaths. Pretend crises. End of the world hoaxes. Just another drop in the bucket.

Aspects of slow planets refer to the assumptions, activities, and beliefs which identify people with their generation, and which change but slowly over the course of a lifetime. ~Bob Markransky

…in the period covered by the sextile of these two heavenly bodies, we are likely to see a collective need for unification and for a development of spiritual values. ~Karen Hamaker-Zondag

Using a 6 degree orb, Neptune and Pluto have been in range of sextile since the early 1940s and will stay within range of sextile until the late 2030s. Every person born within these years will have Neptune sextile Pluto – consequently, many people born in this time period have a Yod with Neptune sextile Pluto both quincunx a third planet.
People with tight Neptune/Pluto aspects:

  • Jane Austen: Neptune trine Pluto
  • Stevie Wonder: Neptune sextile Pluto
  • Robert Pattinson: Neptune sextile Pluto
  • J.R.R. Tolkein: Neptune conjunct Pluto
  • Sally Ride, first American woman in space: Neptune sextile Pluto
  • Simon Cowell: Neptune sextile Pluto
  • Michael Jackson: Neptune sextile Pluto
  • Jimmy Fallon: Neptune sextile Pluto
  • Desmond Tutu, South African anti-apartheid activist: Neptune semisquare Pluto
  • Nelson Mandela: Neptune semisextile Pluto

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133 Responses to “Neptune/Pluto Aspects”

  1. David5379 says:

    hmm, i bet its just gonna blow up with neptune in pisces and gow out with a bang, or at least a mythical melting of intensity
    ide like to say all the things i identify with, but apparently everyone has it, and more than that im neptunian anyways so its irrelevent im sure

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    • Michelle says:

      Do you really think things are going to go out with a bang? 

      I tend to think that, as a society, we have such a collective wish for change that we are creating these doomsday prophecies to scare ourselves into action. Some people passively wait for doomsday to arrive, and others (in the case of global warming for example) make enormous efforts to actively create a transformation in the collective attitude.

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      • David5379 says:

        no i meant more powerfull effect, i did not mean doomsday or catastrophe at all, i just meant this aspect will be more prominent with a super powered neptune perhaps

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        • Michelle says:

          Oh, I see.

          I wonder. Was it more intense when Pluto was in Scorpio? 

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          • David5379 says:

            Hmm that’s a good point as well, I have that Pluto and maybe that’s why I am identifying with it so much, I bet it will see this a lot especially when Neptune transits a trine with that Pluto
            I wonder if it makes my other Pluto aspects more… Powerful since I have a Scorpio Pluto, especially a fourth house one no less

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      • EG says:

        I think you’re focusing more on psychology rather than esoteric meaning in this case.
        But to be fair I have no idea how that phenomenon could be at least very partially explained esoterically.

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        • Michelle says:

          It’s definitely a psychological interpretation. It’s a spin on Jung’s idea that UFO sightings are a collective urge to meet something beyond the self (something like that).

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          • David5379 says:

            I don’t think you can do too much with esoteric brainstorms here both of them are so broad and mystical that you kind of have to bring them down to psychological level

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            • Michelle says:

              It’s funny that you mention esoteric brainstorms because I had someone tell me to start writing more esoteric posts. I think there has to be some “real” stuff that readers can relate to in a practical way or it gets too woo-woo and out there.

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              • David5379 says:

                Woo-woo would be fine to describe how the aspect effects the world but I have never felt that is what this blog is about, it’s about identifying with aspect you have, how they are you, and it’s really difficult to be something so out there, were only human

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                • billow says:

                  Your post has been tossing around in the tumbler, and I feel that I do need some semblence of practical application in my process.  The presence of earth energy here provides grounding and  I am better able to integrate what I learn in a meaningful way.

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  2. Anonymous says:

    Awww, that’s a truly enchanting article!!!

    And despite the fact it’s “only” a generational aspect, I feel such a deep affinity with what you wrote… 
    (Maybe because both Pluto and Neptune form an aspect with my natal Sun (and build a bisextile), and Neptune also conjuncts my Sun/Pluto midpoint – according to ZET!)

    These extracts particularly reflect my own perception of this influence: 

    “…Renewal through spiritual cleansing. Renewal through compassion and giving of oneself. Transformation through developing receptivity to higher forces. Overhauling illusions while remaining deeply idealistic. Becoming aware of psychic powers…The ability to influence others through indirect psychic methods – for better or worse…”

    “…Sexuality regains its ties to spirituality and mysticism. The slow, yet complete disintegration of existing taboos and power structures over the course of a lifetime…”

    “…Deep illusions…We are obsessed with escape…Transformation through letting go…”

    “…Compassion offers catharsis. Compassion for those experiencing pain and trauma. Compassion is a resource. Deep sympathy for people in states of transition. Using psychology for healing. Using psychology to delve into the unconscious…Going too deep causing some to lose realistic boundaries…”

    Those words really mirror what’s going on within my own soul…

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    • Michelle says:

      These things are happening on a large scale but some people still resist the changes. Those people are going to be left behind because with Neptune and Pluto resistance is pointless.

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  3. Aycelina says:

    The permeation of the subconscious through mass messaging. Power to
    influence masses through indirect methods. The ability, and controlled
    use, of images to reach the subconscious. The unconscious processing of
    disturbing imagery. The power of the arts.
    Renewal through spiritual cleansing. Renewal through compassion and giving of oneself. 
    Completly true…
    neptune (scorpio) sextile pluto (virgo) within 1 orb….

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    • Michelle says:

      Which houses are your Neptune and Pluto in?

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      • Aycelina says:

        Neptun in 5 or 6 house it depends the house system… Pluto in 4th house… I’am a journalist by the way… in istanbul…

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        • Michelle says:

          I remember that you are from Istanbul – and I think it’s awesome! I’d love too go there someday.

          #
  4. Robin Joy Dore says:

    Hi!

    I have Neptune Sag. 12’57’32 sextile 0 degrees Applying Pluto Libra 13’8’50′…Pluto Singleton

     I can see it playing out in my personality despite it being generational.

    Deeply unconscious and difficult to define processes.
    We are fascinated by secrets and mysteries.
    Hypnotic.
    The ability, and controlled use, of images to reach the subconscious.(I believe in subliminal messages)
     The power of the arts.
    Sexuality regains its ties to spirituality and mysticism.
    Compassion for those experiencing pain and trauma.
    Using psychology for healing.
    We have opportunities to re-imagine what life can be like.
    The power of imagination.

    #
  5. Robin Joy Dore says:

    Hi!

    I have Neptune Sag. 12’57’32 sextile 0 degrees Applying Pluto Libra 13’8’50′…Pluto Singleton

     I can see it playing out in my personality despite it being generational.

    Deeply unconscious and difficult to define processes.
    We are fascinated by secrets and mysteries.
    Hypnotic.
    The ability, and controlled use, of images to reach the subconscious.(I believe in subliminal messages)
     The power of the arts.
    Sexuality regains its ties to spirituality and mysticism.
    Compassion for those experiencing pain and trauma.
    Using psychology for healing.
    We have opportunities to re-imagine what life can be like.
    The power of imagination.

    #
    • Robin Joy Dore says:

      Hi Michelle,

      Do you ever use Black Moon Lilith? Or do you know anything about BML?
       I guess it’s hypothetical, I’m not sure,but you mentioned Yods and it made me curious… it seems I have a Yod from Neptune/Pluto to Black Moon Lilith. I always wondered if it counted or not.

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      • Michelle says:

        I do use BML and I think she’s important, especially since in my own chart I have BML conjunct the Sun by just over 1 degree. But again, I would keep the orb tight. You might still be able to “feel” the Yod but it isn’t as urgent if the aspect is loose – what I mean is that the Yod isn’t necessarily demanding that you pay attention to it and deal with it.

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        • Robin Joy Dore says:

          Here are the aspects I have, I’d say the orbs are pretty tight :-)

          Neptune (Sag 12°58′)           Black Moon (Tau 12°22′)        wax. sep. inconjunction (150°00′) orb: 0°36′
          Pluto (Lib 13°09′)             Black Moon (Tau 12°22′)        wan. sep. inconjunction (150°00′) orb: 0°47′
          Neptune (Sag 12°58′)           Pluto (Lib 13°09′)             wax. app. sextile (60°00′) orb: 0°11′

          Thank You very much for your advice!

          I’m still trying to figure out what my yod does in my chart. (???)

          Wow! on the part where you have BML conjunct your sun. I don’t know much about the aspects to BML, but I figure that it must give you a powerful personality. =-)

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          • Michelle says:

            After thinking about it a while I remembered I also have a Yod with this group, but not within 1 degree: Neptune sextile Pluto both quincunx South Node within 2.5 degrees. 

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            • Robin Joy Dore says:

              Wow! a South Node Yod? 

              I seem to recall your south node is in Taurus like mine,(correct me if I’m wrong of course) that must be kind of intense, at least it seems like it would be with my very limited experience with Yods and Nodes :-)

              A kind of mix up of artistic and investigative/emotional energy? 

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              • Michelle says:

                Not sure if you clicked on the link in the article about Yods and quincunxes but I like the idea of the quincunx being related to problem-solving abilities. If you can adjust to a situation you can find a way to work through problems. I wonder if people without quincunxes (or Yods) are less likely to do that. Quincunxes (and Yods) in synatry could point to the willingness of both people to work through their problems as well.

                My SN is in Taurus. 

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                • MsFullroller says:

                  “..but I like the idea of the quincunx being related to problem-solving
                  abilities. If you can adjust to a situation you can find a way to work
                  through problems..”Oh I love this especially since I am the proud owner of 6 of these in my chart! It just occurred to me while counting these that the symbol for the quincunx resembles a saw horse. With one saw horse you can do lots of things. But when you put two saw horses together and throw a piece of wood across the two, you’ve got yourself a handy table. Now one can really get somethin’ cooking!

                  #
                • Robin Joy Dore says:

                  I did click on the link to the quincunxes,but I sometimes have a selective memory :-D and I only recalled the part about quincunxes being in the charts of people with a sense of humor. I guess a person would have to have a sense of humor with an aspect like that, huh?

                   I just looked at it though, obviously,:-D and now I see what you were talking about.

                  That’s an interesting theory that you have about people without quincunxes in there chart. I’m wondering the same thing now. That would be something interesting to research.  Also it would take a lot of research. :-) Perhaps it would be worth it though.

                  #
        • Jane says:

          I also have Sun/Venus conjunct BLM. I would love to see you do an analysis of this at some point.It seems to be a pretty powerful combo—

          #
          • Michelle says:

            Hi Jane,

            I’m going to do Sun conjunct BML and Venus conjunct BML but probably not both planets conjunct BML.

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            • LB says:

              i’ve been saving  alot of my BM Lilith insights for you Michelle(:0), after just experiencing transiting Jupiter conjunct, while Solar Arc Pluto opposed. . . maybe I should keep them to myself – lol!   I’m guessing you just went through the same transit, so it would be interesting to compare notes.  Of course, I’M not an astrologer which is why I love sharing with and learning from you.

              Do you think you’ll cover other aspects as well – like BM Lilith opposite Sun?  My own experience with BM Lilith has been slightly different from some of what I read, which as usual seems “limiting” to me.  So what else is new? Ha ha ha.  

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              • Michelle says:

                I don’t know if I’m going to go through each type of aspect – the series could be endless. I really want to cover not just BML but also true Lilith, asteroid Lilith and Waldemath.

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                • LB says:

                  Sounds interesting.  I’d look forward to reading your take on all of the Liliths, even without specific aspects . . . I knew the answer to my question before I even asked – “endless” is right!  Your posts (and brainstorms) always set off my own brainstorms anyway.  They’re very thorough and thought provoking.  Thanks, Michelle. 

                  #
  6. Anany83 says:

    hi
    i have Neptune in Sagi and Pluto in Libra.
    I feel if i dont have any secrets to keep( about myself or others),then this life would become charmless and boring.I want to be carried away by forces-i want to feel an OUTSIDE force.

    I am learning how i can i heal people who has gone through a trauma or pain with the help of psychology.I have deep compassion for these people.

    thankyou

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    • Michelle says:

       am learning how i can i heal people who has gone through a trauma or pain with the help of psychology.I have deep compassion for these people.
      That’s fantastic.

      #
  7. EG says:

    Hi.
    IMHO you nailed it here:
    “The ability of those in power to lull us to sleep. The insidious power
    of media. Indiscriminately absorbing powerful subconscious messages. The
    permeation of the subconscious through mass messaging. Power to
    influence masses through indirect methods. The ability, and controlled
    use, of images to reach the subconscious.”
    And for:
    “Becoming numb to pain and suffering. Becoming desensitized to trauma.”
    and “Compassion for those experiencing pain and trauma.”
    I think the belief, on one level, is that although the resources of compassion are abundant for us, our pain for sufferings of others should be present and re-lived only if it has the benefit of changing us, world or being our barometer in keeping track with out humanity. In other words empathy and compassion have to be useful or there’s no point in having them. 

    #
    • Michelle says:

      In other words empathy and compassion have to be useful or there’s no point in having them.
      Productive empathy? 
      I’m not sure what to think of that.

      #
      • EG says:

        “I’m not sure what to think of that.”

        Just one level of belief in Pluto/Neptune aspect.
        Hm, I could be wrong on that. Are you concerned about the moral/ethic side of it, or whether it really fits when describing this generation and aspect?

        #
        • Michelle says:

          This is a pure I don’t know what to think about it. I have to sit with it a while. I have no immediate response.

          #
  8. MsFullroller says:

    ‘…The magic of deep discovery…What lurks beneath the surface..Overhauling illusions while remaining deeply idealistic…We plunge into the depths of nearly every facet of life. We have the
    opportunity to develop compassion when presented with taboo subjects. We
    have the opportunity to dissolve attitudes that need to be regenerated.
    Transformation through letting go. Learning to accept the inevitable
    transformation of the age. Faceless and nameless forces…The unknown and the unknowable. An age in which we probe what was
    previously unimaginable – good and bad. We have opportunities to
    re-imagine what life can be like. The power to transform the world
    through focused vision. The power of imagination.Compassion for those experiencing pain and trauma..Deep sympathy for people in states of transition…”

    Neptune in Scorpio (3H)/Pluto in Virgo (1H). I resonate with these statements the most.

    Will you be doing any more Chiron aspects posts?  

    #
    • LB says:

      “Neptune in Scorpio (3H)/Pluto in Virgo (1H).  I resonate with these statements the most.”

      Me too, MsFullroller.  And our house placements are similar too – my Neptune in Scorpio is on the cusp of the 2nd/3rd and my Pluto in Virgo is conjunct my Ascendant, but from the 12th.

      #
    • Michelle says:

      After doing that poll last week I realized I forgot to add Chiron aspects to the list of options. I think I may mix Chiron aspects, aspects to the angles, planets in houses and career posts – alternating. 

      #
      • MsFullroller says:

        Cool! I’m looking very forward to all the above!

        #
  9. LB says:

    Like a lot of other people, I have the sextile (less than 1 degree) of Pluto in Virgo to Neptune in Scorpio.  I guess I almost have a Yod, although it might be a little out of orb (2 degrees 26 minutes).  And as you already know, my Neptune is conjunct Mercury/Jupiter so everything gets mixed together in and in a BIG way.

    I like this aspect for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it provides a healthy release point for two of my squares (Mars/Pluto and Neptune/Moon).  My Pluto is in the 12th, so this aspect might contribute to my intuitive/empathic/healing gifts as well.  As usual Michelle, I related to a lot of your descriptions. :)

    #
    • Michelle says:

      I’m reluctant to give too much weight to Yods with Neptune and Pluto unless the orb between all 3 planets is less than 1 degree. Maybe I’m just being stubborn :p

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      • LB says:

        It’s not being stubborn if you’ve never seen evidence to the contrary . . . :)

        Honestly Michelle, I’ve never considered the one I have with Neptune/Pluto to be a Yod anyway.  My chart has enough challenges without adding one more – lol!  My one legitimate Yod, along with the ones formed during transits are plenty.

        #
        • Michelle says:

          I just contradicted myself a little below. 

          The thing to do is round up a bunch of charts with Neptune/Pluto Yods and see what the deal is.

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          • LB says:

            “The thing to do is round up a bunch of charts with Neptune/Pluto Yods and see what the deal is.”

            Your openness and willingness to learn are some of the reasons I like your site so much, Michelle.

            #
            • Michelle says:

              Thanks LB. I am open. I don’t think Although I lean toward particular interpretations or parameters I don’t think I have it all figured out.

              #
          • billow says:

            Neptune sextile Pluto exact degree, yodding Persephone.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

            #
            • Michelle says:

              Lol… I don’t smoke.

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              • billow says:

                I am thinking that my sextile is not fair study anyway, since the midheaven and aries point are involved.

                #
                • Michelle says:

                  The Aries Point – my Venus is there. Been having ideas about that one too.

                  #
                  • billow says:

                    Uranus in Aries is probably jump starting that in new ways.  We do get a retrograde over that point late this year, or close to it anyway.

                    #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I’m sick of it. I want Uranus to leave my Venus alone. She already had to fight off Pluto.

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Is your painting influenced at all by Venus on the Aries Point.  If so, would you now be doing “sick art?” 

                      There is so much stuff about Venus floating around.  It’s supposed to be about wants and desires, but I’m a free faller, so I am looking at that energy more as motivation, which is something I don’t much think about when I reach for chocolate.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I’m not doing much art at all, unless you consider this blog a work of art.

                      Most of my Venus experiences are about relationships right now – purging out-worn attitudes, growing up, taking more responsibility (also had transiting Saturn opposite Venus when Saturn was at 00 Libra)… 

                      lately it’s been about letting go of expectations of what relationships are “supposed” to be like and just letting them be what they are. 

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      I think oppositions are rough.  That’s when I am thankful for squares.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Squares don’t seem to bug me as much, probably because I’m used to them (the devil you know and all that). I have 13 squares  using the basic astro.com chart.

                      #
  10. Liz in PA says:

    Good at math but all too impatient I’d left “the Yod” on a shelf for “later”.  Not positive but, thanks to your article, I think my Neptune 15 Scorpio/Pluto 10 Virgo forms a Yod to my 1st house Aries 14 Sun.  Its high time for some reading!  Thanks for a great article and springboard.

    #
    • Michelle says:

      A 4 degree quincunx between the Sun and Pluto is a little too wide. 2-3 degrees is about as big as the orb can get so….you’re safe! :D

      #
      • Liz in PA says:

        Nice.  The idea made me cringe a bit because I already have lots of Pluto and Neptune in my chart.  Thanks so much for letting me know  =]  Have a great night!

        #
  11. billow says:

    “collective garbage”  .  .  .  I often feel that I am dealing, maybe we all are dealing, with the darker side of unyielding belief systems.  Like there is only one way.  The best intentions can get skewed when joining the cause.  Original intent can turn to war to oppress individuals.

    I thought of that again while viewing Dr Zhivago recently.  The revolutionaries were merciless when they took over, swept away in the causiness.

    #
    • MsFullroller says:

      Exactly Billow, hence my reluctance to join a cause. In addition so much effort ends up going towards other stuff and little on the real work that needs to be done to solve the problem. Thanks for helping me to see that.

      #
      • billow says:

        I think so too.  It’s like the “drive for” takes so much energy in itself, that it zaps the energy needed to do the work.  Call me boring, or Virgo, but I like the work.

        #
      • billow says:

        After thought:  Your Jupiter is in Virgo like mine?    I remember reading something about Jupiter in Virgo being causy.  I know I have been in the past which does nothing but cause trouble (not what I set out to do).  Nobody gets what I am working for.  It’s like I cry out Justice and the firing squad starts shooting.  And I want to say, but but but I’m the good guy.  Cause and effect did not work for me in that way.  Tee hee!

        It goes back to my neptune pluto yod.  My Persephone and Astraea had to have a conjunctive discussion around the aries point.

        #
        • MsFullroller says:

          Nope, mine Jupiter is in Gemini. However, we are similar in that ours are both ruled by Mercury and if I’m remembering right yours is in the 10th house, like mine is. OMG I totally relate to what you are saying!  Astraea is conjunct my Jupiter and both quincunx Neptune. This conjunction is square (1H) Cassandra in Virgo!

          In most groups, I’ve found there is too much posturing for position and status and what I like to call “gum bumping” instead of working to solve the problems.

          #
          • LB says:

            Yep!  I often find people’s superficial desires to look good, get along and have other people think well of them get in the way of addressing the real issues.  The truth is often overlooked and the source of the problem is ignored – people suffer.  I found this to be very true when advocating on behalf of the institutionalized elderly (Pluto in the 12th sextile Neptune on the cusp of the 2nd/3rd).  Even when I was being maligned, I had to keep on them.  Unfortunately, it was far easier to focus on me than it was to deal with all of the messy, unpleasant, practical details I brought to their attention.

            Cassandra is strongly placed in my chart too – she’s in my 4th, trine Pluto and exactly sextile my Mercury in Scorpio – My Neptune/Mercury sit at the Pluto/Cassandra midpoint.  Astraea, at 0 Scorpio is within a few degrees of my Neptune, which is conjunct both Mercury and Jupiter.  I relate to Cassandra.

            #
            • MsFullroller says:

              ***nodding head so vigorously that I might get whiplash** Uh huh!!

              I’m trying to get a better grip onto on what the 3rd house means other than your siblings. None of which I have since I’m an only child. My Neptune is there conjunct the SN so yeah I know…like trying “grab” water . So does the 3rd deal with elderly folks?

              #
              • Michelle says:

                Just came across on article on the 3rd house this morning: http://hniizato.com/2011/05/3rd-house-in-astrology-how-our-parents-attitude-affects-our-mindset/.html It has a different take from what I’ve read of the 3rd before.

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                • MsFullroller says:

                  Thank you so much for this! I did not realize that he had changed his website, Now I know why no new posts were showing up in my reader. 

                  OK Michelle I’m gonna to say this till the cows come home, I really, really appreciate you!!! I hope that you don’t ever get tired of hearing that. And if ya do, well get over it! ;-)  I mean this in the most loving way and hope that it makes you smile. :-)
                   

                  #
                  • Michelle says:

                    MsFullroller, my Moon is in Leo (as is yours!) I will never get tired of feeling appreciated :) It’s fuel for my fire.

                    #
                • billow says:

                  It’s kind of a cool site.  Clear and to the point.  I don’t know about the third house parent thing, and I can’t go there right now.  Grieving a bit yet and all that.  Gotta let em go.

                  #
                  • Michelle says:

                    He does write clearly. It’s refreshing.

                    #
              • LB says:

                “***nodding head so vigorously that I might get whiplash***”

                Don’t hurt yourself now, MsFullroller – lol! No, I don’t think the 3rd specifically relates to the elderly, but I do THINK it strongly relates to communicating what we know, as well as how and what we learn, often through observations made in our immediate environment.  Ruler of my 3rd house cusp – Pluto – is placed in the 12th, so in this case I learned a lot about what goes on behind the scenes (i.e., beneath the surface facade) at some of our 12th house elderly institutions.  Then I communicated my observations, hoping to remedy the situation.  At its best, Neptune is idealistic, compassionate and divinely inspired.  My Scorpio Neptune combined with my Pluto in Virgo seeks to transform in practical ways. 

                Dana Gerhardt says the 3rd is where ” . . . we reach for the world with our minds.”  If we can manage to stay centered, you can imagine what it might mean having Neptune placed there. :)

                Now I’m off to check out the link Michelle just provided.

                #
                • MsFullroller says:

                  ‘..I’m gonna to say this till the cows come home, I really, really appreciate you!!! I hope that you don’t ever get tired of hearing that. And if ya do, well get over it! ;-) I mean this in the most loving way and hope that it makes you smile.” :-)

                  This goes for you too LB! And Billow as well! Y’all have been my gift from transiting Jupiter going over all my 8th house goddess asteroids, Progressed Moon/Venus and natal Sun/Mars conjunction.

                  #
                  • LB says:

                    Thanks, MsFullroller.  The feeling is mutual! 

                    Michelle really has done a great job of creating a friendly and informative space.

                    #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Thanks LB :)

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      And that takes “one tough mofo” as Msfullroller would say.  I mean that in a good way.

                      It is a skill, probably more natural to the Aries leadership bent, to be able to facilitate an open forum where all voices can be heard.  I find it a huge challenge for the Aries NN folks.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      LOL!! I hope you saw my reply to Michelle and LB. It is for you too. ;-)

                      You have Aries NN?

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Oh no, I’m all about group process.  The me me me me stiflers in group process are one of those pet peeves of mine.  Diminishes group creativity.  Even the most ridiculously seeming input by someone usually breaks ice and opens up something else.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      LOL I hear ya! But what I meant my appreciation of you!

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Oh thank you.  Not that I ever really believe that when I hear it (no early bonding to define what it is or something).  I like you too.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      I agree billow – an Aries with integrity makes a great leader.  Generally speaking, I think Cardinal signs are natural managers – each with their own unique style.  My own Cardinal energy is tired of managing (progessed NN recently moved into the 12th) and my natal 8th house SN in Aries cringes at the thought of running a blog. 

                      It’s a dirty job but somebody’s gotta do it -  Michelle’s style works for me!

                      #
                • billow says:

                  “we reach for the world with our minds”  .   .   . good choice of quotes.  That seems endless so I would want to add to that that phrase “unitl it comes home.”

                  #
          • Michelle says:

            too much posturing for position
            Seriously.

            #
          • billow says:

            Oh that’s it, the 10th house thing.  I really have difficulty cuing into and retaining housing.  Must be like foreclosure or something.

            And what up with Cassandra Kassandra?  Is that really the wasted breath?  I could kinduv get that in connection to the superficial or dense headedness.

            #
            • MsFullroller says:

              LOL Billow you always keep me laughing and at the risk of sounding like Martha Stewart ” that’s a good thing.”

              Yep, wasted breath and in connection to Jupiter, big time!  lol  I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve said something to folks/family/friends, only to  get ignored, a strange look or told that’ll never happen. I just go on about my business and do what I need to do. Then they’ll hear or experience the same thing months/years later on from someone else . When they mention what ever it is to me,  I say to them “Uh, huh” while internally I’m shaking my head and saying to myself “Yeah, I said that x months/years ago.” Thank goddess for Saturn in aspect to both of these planets and Mercury is retro, because I’m sure I would have said “I told you so! You’ve could have saved yourself a lot of trouble!”  But, I just can’t bring myself to say it out loud to ‘em. 

              With Cassandra prominent, I think people will tend to see at you as dense. Here is info I have from  “Goddess, A Solar Writer Report:”

              “Cassandra, Asteroid No. 114 was discovered in 1871. Cassandra revels in the world of Neptune-the archetype of the medial woman. Aspects between Mercury and Neptune or Mercury in Pisces reflect Cassandra. Interconnections between Jupiter and Pluto also ignite a similar pattern.”

              I’ve got every one of these and they all aspect each other.

              #
              • billow says:

                That’s what I need to do, realize the door is closed to my input when it is, and move on.  And then not feel like it is my mess to clean up when the fit hits the shan.  I have taurus in the seventh (notice I’m am trying house talk, lol) and there is supposed to be some kind of addiction to crisis associated with taurus?  I guess that’s where tough mofo scorp comes in.  But I am getting too old for that.  Those years are oooooooover.

                Oh should have mentioned earlier NN Sag. 

                #
                • MsFullroller says:

                  ‘That’s what I need to do, realize the door is closed to my input when it is, and move on.  And then not feel like it is my mess to clean up when the fit hits the shan…” 

                  SNAP, SNAP, SNAP!! I’m saving this for future reference! From what I gather, since I’ve got a Scorpio SN and Pluto rising, it’s Scorpio who is addicted to crisis.  Taurus wants serenity and calm. I’m like you, that ish is so 1980s!  No more drama! I don’t have the energy or patience for it anymore.

                  #
                  • billow says:

                    If there is something to the taurus addiction to crisis, it would probably be in the desire to alleviate suffering.  The trick with that is not taking on the suffering of the other.  Some healers have told me they have a difficult time with that, not taking on the energy of the client.  And I have had healers put their energy into my space to the point where it made me ill.  Forced feeding is never good.  I’m working on a filtering system, but not too intently. 

                    #
                    • LB says:

                      I’ve never had it pose a problem with a client, but I am sensitive to energy.  I just started reading “Become the Most Important Person in the Room – Your 30-Day Plan for Empath Empowerment”.  I’d recommend it to anyone who’s at all empathic.

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      I should get that for my boyfriend – grand trine in water.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      Wow, grand trine in water. – I’m guessing he’s sensitive to people’s underlying emotional states???  There are different types of empathic gifts, and some of us are multi-talented. :)  Regardless of his particular talents, this book is very validating, with lots of good exercises.  There are a lot of misconceptions out there about what it means to be an Empath.  It really is a gift, not a disability.   Nor is it a maladaptive dysfunctional behavior.  I wish I’d known about this stuff when I was a kid.

                      MsFullroller if you’re reading this, with Neptune in the 3rd and Pluto in the 1st, this book is for YOU!

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      He’s overly absorbent of everything.

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      I can relate!  Years ago (when I was still a teenager), I attended a talk given by a famous psychic.  Afterwards, as she was taking audience questions, she picked me from the crowd and before I could even ask her a question she said “Honey, you’re like a SPONGE.”

                      It took me 30 years to figure out what she meant. 

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      My boyfriend has only recently realized how much of a sponge he is. He’s going to go buy the book you mentioned. He was very excited by what you wrote about it.

                      #
                    • MsFullroller says:

                      I will as soon as I come up with another book to pair with it to get me over the $25 for free shipping at Amazon. Buying it used pricewise is not a good deal.  

                      #
                    • LB says:

                      Want to hear something funny? I was going to buy a used version, but then thought I might pick up on other people’s “stuff” as I was reading it, so opted to buy it new! Anyway, this is ending up to be one of those books I highlight, dog-ear, and re-read. 

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Grand trine in water  .   .  .  busted again!

                      #
                    • Michelle says:

                      Do you have a grand trine in water?

                      #
                    • billow says:

                      Head hung low mumbling barely audible .  .  .  y-y–y-y es.  Wishing for a smaller font she writes Mars Venus Saturn.  The crap did a number on me. 

                      #
  12. Les says:

    I have Neptune conjunct Jupiter in Scorpio (2/0) in my 3rd near my IC and Pluto conjunct Venus and Mercury in Virgo (2/2/0) in my 1st house. I think like LB it’s good for Virgo to have that release of the sextile from Neptune (amplified I guess in Jupiter). The only yod I have is to Eros on the Aries Point in my 8th! That’s “woo woo” in a different way! But I’m not so sure it really counts. I am getting that Uranus inconjunct/yod transit – but it’s at the same time as transiting Neptune is opposing my Mercury, confusing things. And my progressed Moon moved into my 12th house – so a lot of stuff is coming up for examination! (Have to remember that yods have a sense of humor – sigh – think it works for transits, too?)

    #
    • Michelle says:

      Donna Cunningham mentioned that Yods have a sense of humor – is that right? Can’t say I’ve noticed that so far.

      Your Eros is conjunct my Eros (29 Pisces) and Venus (00 Aries) :)

      #
      • billow says:

        What up with Eros?  Any takes out there?

        #
        • Michelle says:

          Lee Lehman had an interesting idea in The Ultimate Asteroid book – Eros is the way that we objectify, or eroticize some aspect of a person or thing. So, it’s not really love, it’s more like fetishism. Her example was the guy who always goes after tall blondes -that’s his “thing” – the tall blonde. Although he might be attracted to other women, it’s that particular look that turns him on most; it’s a fetish. 

          Adding:
          fet·ish: 1.an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.

          2.any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence,respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.

          3.Psychology . any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

          #
          • LB says:

            Veeery interesting.  My Eros is just past the Descendant and is exactly conjunct my husband’s Mars, which is biquintile my Venus.  His Eros is within a few degrees of his BM Lilith/Chiron conjunction which is exactly conjunct my Moon and trine my Mars.

            I’ll have to think about what you’ve written.  Thanks.

            #
          • billow says:

            My Eros is conjunct Hygeia.  Is that like hygiene?  I don’t ever think gosh, your hygiene gets me hot.  I do know that I always enjoyed (yes that’s past tense) the pure physical act of fornication.   It feels sacred.  I found it very cleansing.  Eros is in Capricorn so I am serious about it.  I don’take kindly to the idea of rape or any other power play that physically violates the body of another. 

            I am glad you touched on Eros here, because I have started my physicality regime.  I had to laugh when I found Memoria (memory related I imagine or please excuse my baseness) opposite Eros and Hygeia because what kick started this exercise thing is remembering being at peak physical condition in my 20-30s and what that felt like.  I want to see what that will feel like now at this age.

            #
            • Michelle says:

              “In Mythology, Hygeia is one of the daughters (actually a stepdaughter) of Aesclepius …

              In astrology, the asteroid Hygeia represents our attitude and belief system concerning health and fitness awareness. Hygeia also rules sanitation and the valuable role hygiene and diet play in health maintenance. ”

              http://www.thegalaxyexpress.com/chiron-and-hygeia

              #
          • MsFullroller says:

            Yep, very interesting! My Eros is conjunct my Gemini/MC and tightly square my Virgo Ascendant, and sextile my Sun and exact quintile my Moon.

            I’m very much turned on by intelligence, attention to detail and practical common sense all with  emotional intelligence as well.

            Oh and this New Moon is conjunct Eros! I wonder what is in store. 

            #
            • billow says:

              Crap, you guys got me feeling so textbook case these days, or maybe I’m having fun with the puzzle.  My fitness push, while it is for the bodily sensation of it  .   .   .   well the solar eclipse sun moon fell in my progressed 6th house.  That puts the eclipse point in the progressed 12th  .  .  .  I have no correlation their except for that might be where my memories are stored.  “Memories light the corners of my mind, misty water color memories of the way it were  .  .   . ”

              Speaking of which, I belted that song out in front of a voice class once, and the comment I got was you need to be careful with how you sing your e’s in that one.  So there I was belting out Mammaries from the depths of my soul.  LOL 

              #
      • billow says:

        Yoddish humor probably depends on what one thinks is funny.  When one is having difficulty, it is never fun to be laughed at or driven deeper into despair by jeering.  Some folks get off on that. 

        And it probably helps to have a sense of humor to deal with a yod, but that comes from being able to laugh at oneself, not being laughed at.

        #
  13. Boris_nervy says:

    i think this hits close to pluto in the 12th… :)

    #
    • Michelle says:

      There are some similarities :D

      #
    • billow says:

      Pluto is the ruler of Scorpio?  But I don’t really get a watery feel about it, unless I think depth.  Would that lack of connection to water be affected by natal Pluto (MH 10th) being in fire?  And I can think and talk about Neptune being water sometimes, more now that it is progressed into scorpio, but natal neptune (12th) in air always has a mental feel for me leaning to woo woo gone wild.

      #
      • Michelle says:

        I’m not sure if I experience Pluto as being watery either. It’s just intense to me – unfeeling and relentlessly moving forward. In some ways Pluto seems like mother nature.

        #
        • billow says:

          This Pluto water consideration has changed my whole thinking about situations and events on its head.  Strong emotions and obsessive behavior and worstly subversive behavior.  It just never parsed out in my Virgo brain.  That’s wasted energy.  Emotional complexity is just that.  I can take my own time out for my crap, but there is really nothing much I can do about for example, the boss’s crap. 

          And then there is the brain function factor.  University of the Air on PBS ran a lecture on the mind brain connection.  They examined brains of dead alcoholics and found that the area of the brain that rationalizes does not develop. 

          There is also something that goes on in the  frontal lobe that has to do with emotions.  For example psychopaths process differently with no emotion.  In the case of the CEO, they said it is good because they have to make tough decisions.  (Looking at our current economy, I find that questionable.)

          I think the long and the short of it is that I was trying to understand ‘how could he/she do something like that” and “why do folks rally around that” when it just is.  The conversation was really complicated by the fine upstanding citizen front.  Ah well, silly me.

          Mother Nature is kicking up her heels right now.  Sunshine, lightning, and thunder, as she breaks this sweltering heat.

          #
          • LB says:

            “For example psychopaths process differently with no emotion.  In the case of the CEO, they said it is good because they have to make tough decisions.”

            billow, you’ve hit upon a subject perfectly suited for my 12th house Pluto in Virgo sextile Neptune in Scorpio on the cusp of the 2nd/3rd.  I think this lack of empathy you’re describing happens at all levels of society and to some extent is considered both socially and politically acceptable, even admirable – no big surprise why so many charming yet ruthless individuals rise to the top when the bottom line is money/power.  But anyone who wields any sort of power (and during the course of living our daily lives, most of us have power over SOMEONE) can just as easily succumb to the temptation of dehumanizing others when it suits our purposes.  It only becomes more apparent when greater numbers of people are involved. 

            Philosopher Martin Buber described the phenomena as  “I-Thou” versus “I-It”. 

            #
            • billow says:

              I went back to my scribble book to the notes I made on that mind brain lecture.  It was not about emotion with the psychopath but that they cannot see the other. 

              I was confused by the different frontal lobe conditions.  Like the soldier whose frontal medial something was damaged in war.  When his father came to see him in the hospital he told him he loved him and kissed him and the soldier’s response was “what the hell, does he think I am gay.  That would be an emotional disconnect.

              Anyway, so if I am non existent, what the hell am I doing hanging out with that person or in that situation.  Trying I guess.  That’s insanity.  I have to be able to see that other, too, and the limitations.

              I couldn’t deny the earth feeling of Pluto that Michelle mentioned.  I have read that Scorpio can be experienced on different levels like from the basest to the most exalted spiritually???  Here’s a quote I found from John Berger for what it’s worth:  Compassion
              has no place in the natural order of the world which operates on the basis of
              necessity. Compassion opposes this order and is therefore best thought of as
              being in some way supernatural.

              Sorry it’s so big.  I lost my tool bar.

              #
              • billow says:

                Oh, it looked big until it posted.

                #
              • LB says:

                You’re not non-existent billow, nor are you invisible. You post, therefore you are. :)  We can start to feel that way though, when others treat us as if we’re nothing more than tools in a tool-box.  Here’s something on humans and the idea that we’re actually soft-wired for empathic connection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g 

                I found the link through another astrologer’s post – sorry I can’t remember which one, but many thanks to that person!  Not that we need a biological/evolutionary imperative to act with compassion.

                #
                • Michelle says:

                  Great video. I especially like the 1st half. 

                  #
              • Michelle says:

                I like that quote. That is what nature seems like – it’s not compassionate; it’s got business to take care of. 

                #
          • Michelle says:

            The conversation was really complicated by the fine upstanding citizen front.  Ah well, silly me.You make me laugh. 
            Some people just don’t seem to notice the “normal” social controls that are in place. 

            #
            • billow says:

              Maybe that would be good, not to notice.  I only know they are there because I am continually told I am in violation of them.

              #
  14. Scythe404 says:

    I can’t remember where, but I was reading about Neptune/Pluto aspects’ relationships to their society’s ideal of power and leadership. The writer pointed out that the sextile generations (every generation since the 50s or so, right?) had a less intense attraction to authority, collectivism and revolution, whereas the last conjunction generation (Neptune/Pluto in Gemini) gave rise to leaders like Hitler and Mao, whose highly subjective leadership was based entirely on glamour, idealism, and collective surrender (I think those two both had Neptune aspecting their midheaven too!). Another thing these leaders had in common? All their work was undone by the generations that followed upon the conjunction. Again, though, I take no credit for this insight. I wish I could remember where I read it!

    #
    • Michelle says:

      Interesting, Scythe404, thank you for sharing.

      #
  15. Sherri says:

    I’m trying to balance the letting go of control with the  being careless with resources. Apparently when I get lazy I go all out. I’m pluto in virgo house 12 and neptune in scorpio house 2. I swear I have had moments today when I just stopped thinking and stared out into space.

    This mercury retrograde is going to be interesting.

    #
  16. Cate Reidy says:

    Dear Michelle
    I love your description of this aspect. As well as bringing it to life, it also captures the dreamy and dissociated quality, that can sometimes be central to the relationship between these two planets.

    I was born during at a time when this aspect was very tight – within minutes – and I would say that I do tend to be focused on looking beneath the surface at the what lies beneath, on the sea-bed – so to speak – at both the wreckage and also what might re-surface in terms of unresolved historical difficulties.

    Astrologically, I have Scorpio rising, a stellium of four other planets conjunct Neptune in the 12th house, sextile to Pluto in the 10th, all which I suppose, tends to add more weight to the themes and traits you describe. I’m a Jungian psychotherapist, a dream researcher and a psychological astrologer with a particular interest in the 12th house and all those split off and screened off areas of experience which, for one reason or another tend to be evicted from conscious awareness. My work also involves research at the boundaries between astrology, genealogy and psychology. So clearly, my career is certainly inter-laced with the watery feeling realm of Neptune and those hidden depths penetrated by Pluto.

    Interestingly, I’m aware that in recent years, Neptune and Pluto were out of aspect for a number of years (I must look up the exact dates), but last month re-connected, on the 19th May 2013. In many ways, I’m pleased about this, because I have a sense that in the coming years, collectively there are going to developments which will heighten sensitivity – always a double edged sword – to which I can bring my own perspective. Perhaps, this sensitivity is related to experiences of loss and grief (Neptune in Pisces etc), and especially connected to the disappointments or unvoiced traumas experienced during these times in which we live.

    Creative people, of course, will be able to express their feelings through their art, but there is likely to be others who will need help to understand why they feel the way they do. On the plus side, I’m interested to see how this feeling and sensitivity based approach will work in tandem with the harsh, disruptions of the current Pluto and Uranus square. I suspect it will prevent us from damming up emotionally, and therefore, invaluable in bringing about ‘hope after the storm.’ Inevitably, this offers the means to digest and integrate collective and personal developments, which might otherwise be psychically indigestible.

    I realize what I’m saying might be sounding a bit vague, but feelings are often hard to speak about in a clear cut way. And for some, they are hard to even verbalize at all and metaphor is the only channel of expression. As we know, both Neptune and Pluto are associated with signs traditionally described as ‘mute,’ so this is only to be expected.

    Thank you, Michelle. I’m already looking forward to your next post.

    Warm wishes, Cate

    #
    • AstroFix says:

      Thanks Cate. I hope the future brings rich opportunities to impart your insight.

      #

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