Sun/Chiron Aspects


sun key


You understand the pain of existence. Just being alive can be excruciating. You have no allegiance to any group, mindset, brand or corporation. You do your own thing – not out of rebellion, but because that’s just who you are. You are a maverick. You go your own way and make your own rules because the existing rules don’t fit. You discover who you are and who you want to be by recovering the missing pieces of yourself. You are intrinsically, fallibly human. You lead the life of a human being, which is the opposite of being a hero on a pedestal. Even as a mentor or teacher you have flaws. You are learning to accept and embrace your human experience completely. You are perfect in your imperfection. You exist outside of linear “time.” You exist in non-chronological time. Your self-unfolding has its own time schedule which may or may not fit in with your plans and what you think you want to do. You strive to see your life as a complete whole rather than as fragmented chunks. You are putting yourself back together. You are accepting and embracing your limitations. You are accepting and embracing your pain. You are striving for wholeness – retrieving and replacing missing parts of yourself. You are opening a door to the self. You are opening a door to a new way of being.

Sensitivity to what it means to be alive as a human being on this planet. Sensitivity to the human plight. Sensitivity to the plight of animals and all living creatures. Soul sensitivity. Discomfort with being the center of attention. Feeling uncomfortable in your own skin – and needing to do something about it. Feeling that other people are uncomfortable when you are the center of attention. Trouble with feeling that you do not have a central purpose or reason for existing. Difficulty understanding what it is you are ‘supposed’ to be doing with your life, yet having an overwhelming sense that you are supposed to be doing something. Striving to heal the perception that you lack a purpose or point – and finding a unique path in the process. Creating your path as you go along. Discovering that you must create your path because it is yours alone and doesn’t fit an existing mold. The maverick’s path. The healer’s path. The astrologer’s path. The pain of being who you really are. Learning to accept yourself in totality rather than fragmenting off parts of yourself that are difficult to accept. Integrating all areas of your life into one complete whole. Inability to ignore experiences that have left you wounded or in pain. An overriding need to pay attention and find solutions to all that ails you – and helping other people in the process.

Discontented with traditional healing methods. Finding that conventional solutions don’t work for you. Using yourself as a test subject. Self-experimentation. Needing to find out for yourself. Openness to alternative healing methods. Pain and wounding that takes you on a journey to self-discovery. Being on a never-ending treadmill trying to find a cure for your problems. Self-medicating. Self-prescribing. Self-diagnosis. Discovering new healing methods as you attempt to fix your own problems. Convincing yourself that there is something wrong with you. Running in circles trying to find solutions when the solution is to accept that you have flaws. Trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Don’t try to fix what ain’t broken. Getting deeper and deeper into new or obscure healing methods. Knowing when to stop searching for solutions and accept things as they are. The inner quest. A hero’s inner journey. The journey to wholeness. The quest for missing pieces.

Helping other people realize the very qualities you lack or that give you pain. You help other people grow what you cannot grow in yourself. Becoming a guide through a particular world of pain. Helping others heal what you cannot heal in yourself. Trouble integrating masculine, or yang, characteristics. Wounded relationships with dad or other significant men in your life. Identifying with the wounded masculine. Having deep sensitivity and compassion for your father. Understanding your father’s pain. Having a father who has been deeply wounded. Feeling that your father or other men in your life have caused you almost insurmountable pain. Trouble with feeling vital, expressive and creative. Problems with confidence until you fully address underlying issues. Your identity is bound up with the parts of yourself that need to be healed. You identify with people who have long-standing hurts and traumas. You identify with people who struggle with their identity and accepting themselves as they are. You identify with people who have trouble reconciling and integrating difficult aspects of their personality. You can become a teacher, guide, mentor or guru to others. You can become a healer. Self-realization requires that you integrate the fragmented pieces of your life. Healing yourself brings out radiant self-expression.

The key to healing is understanding who you are. The key to healing is building self-confidence. The key to healing is knowing your life has a purpose. The key to healing is finding that purpose. The key to healing is tapping into your creative self-expression. The key to healing is to get in touch with your destiny. The key to healing is bringing soul force to your life. You are creating a whole, inclusive sense of self that accepts of all aspects of who you are without conditions. By accepting yourself as you are you show other people how to accept themselves as they are.

original chiron glyph

Original Chiron glyph. Click to read more.

Chiron is both a minor planet and a comet. It is located between Saturn and Uranus. Chiron takes about 50 years to make one complete cycle through all the signs of the zodiac. Chiron is in Libra for the shortest amount of time – 1.5 years; and in Aries the longest – about 8 years. Chiron’s symbol resembles a key.

Chiron + Planets eBook

chiron-planetsInterpretations of astrological pairings between Chiron & the 10 major planets

10 interpretations, including planet pairings with Chiron from the Sun through Pluto. Written in short, fragmented sentences, this eBook embraces a loose, brainstorm-style of writing.

  • Chiron + Sun
  • Chiron + Moon
  • Chiron + Mercury
  • Chiron + Venus
  • Chiron + Mars
  • Chiron + Jupiter
  • Chiron + Saturn
  • Chiron + Uranus
  • Chiron + Neptune
  • Chiron + Pluto

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  • Patricia Parker
    This is crazy!!! I didn’t really pay attention to Chiron but it is accounting for a lot of my troubles.

  • A Lee

    I have the trine in 9th harmonic (grand trine with Neptune) and can identify with your descriptions a lot <3 thank you.

    • Thank you for reading, A Lee. Do you work with harmonics a lot?

      • A Lee

        Only a few, like 9th, 7th and 5th 🙂

        • A Lee

          I find my 9th harmonic planetary and house placements to be a true reflection of who I am, whereas the natal chart is used for synastry, transits and predictions.

      • A Lee

        Adding on: I find my 9th harmonic planetary and house placements to be a true reflection of who I am, whereas the natal chart is used for synastry, transits and predictions.

  • faith

    every. single. sentence. hit me in the gut like an open wound.

    my 3H cancer chiron square my 6H libra sun, 5H libra mars, conjunct my 2H cancer jupiter and trine my 6H scorpio pluto.

    I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m constantly feeling stuck, limited by the ‘idea’ that life isn’t working out for me however hard I tried and recently, it has just become too much of me. I’m not even sure if my wounds make sense or not. I think it doesn’t.

    I hope someone can help me out.

    • Hi faith,

      Would you post your chart?

  • jqq

    I have Chiron in 1st house quincunx Sun in 8th.
    I often feel that my insecurity with personal image gets in the way of me living my life and achieving things.
    My emotionally absent father was also a great source of pain for me growing up.
    This article resonated with me a lot. Thanks for writing it.

  • andy mack

    My wife has the Sun (chart ruler) in tight conjunction to the NN (Scorpio, 3rd house) in opposition to Chiron (29 degrees Aries in the 9th). Your descriptions are pretty accurate. Her father is certainly a painful factor in her life and she has been trying to overcome a number of issues from her childhood through therapy, self medication, alternative healing etc. It seems to be an all consuming obsession (Scorpio) but there seems no end in sight. I’m wondering how the Moon’s nodes play out in this.

    • Hi andy mack,

      I would have to see her chart to give any insight. I’m guessing you’re viewing her chart using Placidus since she would have Leo rising? Have you looked at her chart using the whole sign house system?

      • andy mack

        I am not familiar with the whole sign system but have just done her chart again on using it. It changes the houses for the Sun and Chiron to 4th and 10th, maybe emphasising parental issues, which would make sense. Do you predominantly use the whole sign system and why? Just curious. First time I’ve come across it.

        • I like to Whole Signs when I look at the natal chart and I use both Whole Signs and Placidus for transits, progressions, etc …

          I use Whole Signs for the natal chart because it gives a simple and clear view of a person’s chart. I think it gives a holistic perspective instead of bits and pieces, fragmentation, of the whole self. It makes each house equally important to the native by size and it eliminates the weird partial interpretations that occur when planets are on cusps or when houses are intercepted. Personally, I think it’s truer to who the person is and who they are becoming.

          • andy mack

            It is interesting. I will have to experiment with it to see how it works on charts I have done with equal and placidius. I know you don’t have the complete chart in front of you but could you point me in the right direction as regards the Sun conjunct NN opposing Chiron. Is her soul’s journey to release the wounds she has and grow towards having confidence in her own identity and life path? If the whole house system places the sun in the 4th, that would emphasize growth towards nurturing and being nurtured and finding an identity in family and laying down roots as opposed to seeking a career path etc.??

            • Yes. Also it would indicate that growth comes through developing inner knowing of the self without needing or seeking outside approval from authority figures.

              • andy mack

                Yes, that makes sense. She also has Uranus in close conjunction to her Sun, which emphasizes that independence and rebellion. Her own path is very much the path she follows. With Chiron in the mix, I suppose healing is part of the process of learning to be truly unique. Thank you for taking the time to reply. Its been useful and its also got me experimenting with the whole sign method.

  • Jass

    Just started the transit Chiron in pisces in house 7 square my sun and the emotional relationship pain is just unbelievable. Apparently I will have this until Feb 2020. Scorpio sun, Venus in Virgo H1, Saturn in Aries house 7, help…

    • Learn some breathing techniques, try some flower essences, and let your heart grow.

  • Z

    This was painful to read, because it is the truth! Especially this: “Difficulty understanding what it is you are ‘supposed’ to be doing with
    your life, yet having an overwhelming sense that you are supposed to be
    doing something.” i have the opposition

    • Is Neptune also in aspect to your midheaven?

    • 2011k

      I agree, that’s the one that hit me the hardest as well. I have chiron opposite a sun-saturn wide orb conjunction, along with the neptune-uranus conjunct in capricorn right on top of my MC. To say that I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing with my life is a huge understatement.

      • What have you been doing so far?

        • 2011k

          Drifting about, honestly. I KNOW I could do more, I have potential. The fear of failure and lack of practical vision holds me back.

          • You’ll fail if you do nothing. Might as well try something.

    • moneychix

      I have the quincunx. no vision and yet so much potential. drifting and absolutely hating it. Jupiter, Uranus, Pluto transiting my MC should be giving me ideas now for the absolute change I desire but there is no vision. Really sad

      • How close is Uranus to your MC?

  • lucy snow

    chiron sextile sun, and now I am experiencing transiting pisces chiron exactly opposite my sun.. how painful

    • Has anything in particular happened that you can share?

  • SpidersOnTheMoon

    I don’t why I always blamed Neptune for these issues but god damn it Chiron, I have my eye on you now. This article was painful to read (Chiron square Asc, opposition Neptune, Saturn, North node and an exact opposition of 0°01s to Sun) *sob*

    • Was there anything in particular you were blaming Neptune for? (Personally, I have Sun conjunct Chiron, with Sun trine Neptune).

      • SpidersOnTheMoon

        „You understand the pain of existence. Just being alive can be excruciating. You discover who you are and who you want to be by recovering the missing pieces of yourself. You are intrinsically, fallibly human. The pain of being who you really are.”

        Yeah, for a perpetual sense of being lost, fragmented and confused in life, incurably wounded (whether real or imaginary) and having general sensitivity towards
        everything and everyone, not even in a psychic way, I’d say. Basically spent my whole childhood daydreaming it and crying it away, wrapped up in some vague, bottomless, inner pain for myself, those around me and the world at large for god knows what reasons and I’m still wasting it away feeling (generally) irremediably broken and out of place at the very core. Though I think I’ve learnt to become a tad more solid, exercise some selfishness and not just drift through life aimlessly.

        Not sure if this was the general and vague response you were asking for. But it’s hard to put a finger on this and give a concrete answer lol (Neptune conjunct Sun & Moon)

  • Milana

    “Problems with confidence until you fully address underlying issues. Your identity is bound up with the parts of yourself that need to be healed.”

    that piece was so potent as I lied awake crying last night. I am not sure about anything but my pain.

  • Lillycath

    this was right on for me

  • David

    Hey which birth chart to use Astrotheme or Astrodienst?

    • I usually use Astrodienst. I’m not familiar with Astrotheme’s chart services, but they should provide you with an accurate chart.

  • Ana

    I’d like to thank you for writing this article. It was of great help for me. I’ve read it many times since I’ve got to know your website.
    It’s not only because every single sentence seems to be describing me (every and each single sentence! Unbelievable!), but also because it feels like it may be a key to find some relief in life.
    I’d like to confess that when I first read it, it deeply moved me (I shed tears!). Probably because I felt that (finally) I was not alone. Though I’m the loneliest person I know, I had this feeling that there would be others who had this same condition of mine. Maybe I could find a clue, a hint to get out of all these misfortune.
    I turned myself to astrology few years ago because I’ve always been alone and feel no purpose in life. I’m still looking for the answers and want to find out if it still worth struggling to find companion, if it worth to fight for a better condition at work ( I have spent so much time and money attending post graduation and nothing has changed!). I see people around me conquering things in a natural and easy way while I don’t see the results of my efforts. Doors seem to be close forever.
    I might not find those answers, but I’m already addicted to astrology! Your website is wonderful! You are really wonderful person! Got your time to share your knowledge to help people know themselves. You are an artist (I love the pictures you choose for your articles. They say a picture worths more than a 1000 words! Those you choose really do!)
    God, the Universe, Yeshua bless you!
    PS: my Sun square Chiron
    I have sun in the 8th house

    • Is your Chiron in the 11th house?
      Don’t give up on your efforts regarding work … where is your north node?

      Thank you for your kind words. I did in fact study art in college … oil painting. I worked as a photographer for a little while too.

      • Ana

        Dear Michelle,

        I don’t know how, but you figured it out! I actually have Chiron in Taurus in the 11th house!…

        And I have North Node in Gemini, 3rd house…and it is retrograde…

        and it conjunct Saturn…which is also retrograde!…

        Is that too Bad or Extra-bad?!*

        PS: Last Friday was my birthday and I couldn’t help having a glance at Astrofix, looking for knowledge from stars! Astrofix is plenty of novelties in 2015! Pretty cool!

        *I still haven’t found anyone to tell me the simple and raw truth!

        • Hi Ana,

          Happh birthday!

          the 11th house placement of Chiron was a guess based on your description of the type of loneliness you experience.

          The north node in Gemini I the 3rd house is a strong indication that you you need to be more curious about other people. Try asking people questions about themselves to test whether your assumptions are tru … and see how that makes you feel. With saturn (ruler of your Sun) conjunct the north node, (maybe your sun is in the 10th house?), there’s an indication of business communications conducted in a youthful and engaging way.

          • Ana

            Loved this hint! It’s a new and fresh way to regard North Node!
            Now I’m a subscriber, couldn’t help! Definitely addicted! 🙂

  • My god, this is totally me.
    I’ve a close conjunction Sun (21°14)-Chiron(22°05) in Gemini in the 7th house, and my sun is opposed to Saturn & Uranus (in the 1srt House both) in Sagittarius.
    I’ve also Venus in the Gemini in the 7th, opposed to my ascendant in scorpio.
    I think I can relate this to my Moon conjunction Neptune in Capricorn in the 2th House… but Neptune is opposed to Mercury & Mars in Cancer in the 8th.

    I could describing myself as someone very kind but wounded in the past by others. I don’t feel loved. Even if I am, it’s like I can’t feel something except I’m a lonely soul.
    I’ve been hurt so many times, not in my love relationships but with friends and people. My nature is enthousiasmic, optimistic, I talk a lot… At the biginning everybody seems to be happy to met someone so energic like me, but with time I feel like I’m just no longer an interesting person. And I feel lonely. I already worked on this: I’m accepting this. I complain with everyone who feel this existing loneliness, but I’m trying to forget et move on when I feel left behind ( it happens all the time)

    You wrote that someone with strong sun aspect to Chiron is a person who see in others the lack of qualities he has. That’s unbelievable. So true. I spend my time seeing what a better person I could be if I had this little something I think everybody has, comparing, unable to see MY little thing 🙂 I always felt I could see the purpose of others… but not mine. I feel so melancholic all the time about my need to be closer to everyone. I would touch the heart to people I talk with. I would talk about the truth of life with them. I would share those feelings that keeps me alone in my head.

    Chiron people may be like:
    “We sleep, pressed up against one another… We live, pressed up against one another… We caress each other, we cuddle, we understand each other, we comfort us… But at least, we always are all alone in the world”

    I watch a lot a animal documentaries, specialy african nature. It gives me the feeling to watch the real life : often I think I’m this weak wildebeest all alone, wounded by life, totally left behind, that will soon eated by hyenas, eating him in his screams and tears.
    I know, that’s sad. But the nature is cruel too. Death, pain is in the nature, as joy, kindness and life. That’s what everybody are: imperfect, beautiful in his own imperfection as you said. I know that. I just can accept myself, my identity is broken in these two pieces : the weak and the strong, in no middle. The child and the old one. The warm and the cold. It’s hard to find who you are when you’re feeling a totally different reality than the others. Other people will tell ou what you are, and you’ll be like ” my god, that’s not what I feel, you are wrong about me, that’s unfair”. Everything is unfair… But I accepted that’s unfair. Even if it hurts. Injustice is totally part of the wound: an anti hero is raised by injustice.

    Could I call it the “Dark Knight feeling” ? 🙂
    Chiron wants justice, that’s obvious. He’s a Dark knight, like Batman. He accept to die alone to make others live. Thanks to him, Prometheus can be the father of human race. It’s clearly a sacrifice. Batman wants justice, he’s wounded since he’s orphan. He sacrifies his life, even if it means to be alone, rejected, misunderstood. He’s not a white knight, he’s not a hero: he sacrificed his life and decaded to save people from what hurted him. It may be far fetched, but Batman is the most cold hero. Bruce wayne is his real mask: inside, he’s wounded and hurt forever by the night, that toook him when he was young. It turned him into a sacrificial creature, disrespect for what he did the best for others, only admired when he gets his superficial mask, as rich people usually are. Because we live in the world where individuals are most admired when they run over people with money than when they’re giving their life fighting for others.

    I read about melancholia, and I know melancholia is the saturnian thematic in the ancient greek medecine. Melancholia reminds me more about Chiron…its something that brings out pain without no rational reasons, except maybe nostalgia, the lost of what we had, feelings we felt before, the traumas that hurt us so much, the time that is running out. And mostly for me, this need to have a special destiny, to feel special and just the moment after to feel unspecial and meaningless. Art and creativity are usually giving me salvation, but I also feel frustrating to not be good as some other who would have different quality ou technic than mine ( I’ll think he will be better also, because he’s only different than me…)

    When I was a little girl, I saw the ugly ducking in a disney version video.
    It was about this little swan, grey, ugly, different, that everybody rejected even his family. I never felt rejected by my parents, but I rejected my twin brother because he always show his weakness to get secure: my parents, as everybody, thought I was able to take care of myself more than my bother was. They helped him to find his way because he was less gifted ( in art especially, I was already drawing), instead I’ve made myself. He always played the victim, and I was the victimizer. The bad one, who needed no help, who has to find her way alone. It’s still the case: in the conflicts, no one will support me, because they think I can take it. I look strong while I feel weak… I’m also wrong. I’m always to blame. I always placed in the dock, I fell injustice… I know it, I’m trying to accept that people will bring me problems because of what I say, think, or do. The ugly ducking is still here… He still look at itself in the mirror, feeling ugly, sad, too different, and the pain is always coming back: the existing pain.

    All theses images make me think to Chiron, the wounded centaur. I understand that a gift is mostly something that gives you a strong and a weak side. A talent is often a weakness. Artists knows, it may be explaining with creativity can lead us trought difficulties of the life experience.

    Sorry for my english. Thanx a lot for you article. It’s a key.

    • I feel like I’m just no longer an interesting person. …but I’m trying to forget et move on when I feel left behind ( it happens all the time)
      It does happen all the time and not only to you. I’m not sure I have advice for this.

      Strength often comes from allowing yourself to be vulnerable and to admit that you need help, love, etc … Sometimes it takes more strength to admit that to pretend that you are strong already.

  • enchantress299

    I really enjoyed this post about Chiron/Sun. I have Chrion square my Sun/MC/Venus conjunction, and there are times when it feels like emotional pain IS my life. Not because I am always the one feeling it, but because if I’m not feeling it, I’m usually helping someone else work through theirs. Because I am such a natural at this, it DOES make me feel like I am very ‘different’ from others because I can see the hurts/vulnerabilities of others very clearly while others can’t/don’t want to. It also lends to the fact that I feel very ambivalent about people- even toxic people- because on the one hand, I want to help them, but on the other hand I know that it is up to them to make the DECISION to change and make different decisions about how they treat themselves and others. (I fall into this a lot in relationships, which is why I don’t date a lot, because I expend A LOT of energy on the other person). I find it much easier for me to relate to the underdog, and I often find myself wanting to help that person gain confidence or stand up to the people who are oppressing them.

    Also, I’m with the people above who say they like being the center of attention, but at the same time, if they aren’t being appreciated, it can be hurtful/disappointing.

    • Ana

      I also have this feeling that my life is plenty of emotional pain and I also feel symphaty to the underdog. It’s easy to talk and understand the outsiders.

      • Neptune aspect to your Sun?

        • Ana

          I’m a neptune conjunct venus.
          By the way, I’ve just read your Neptune/Venus! Amazing!

  • Selves-Love. Teflon. Slicing Time. Creating “The Way”. Customizing everything. Helping 1 other join “The Way” of One Different – less lonely, and I highly recommend 13 years of selves-loving Solitude in Society before choosing a partner, if previous relationships haven’t worked out the way others say they should. Sidestepping “supposed to be” messages, verbal and non-verbal, from others, particularly from mobs of Human Animals. Sun-Centered Animal-from-the-Gut, really hard to hide that – then discovering it is hard for others pretending to be, to hide from the SunChiron broadcasting Selves-Acceptance. “Men!” -and I’m a Man. Again, the difference between what Society says something should be, how “men” should be, finding one who really gets it for Himself, down in the Gut. I’ve read all the post contributors so far on AstroFix’ Sun Chiron essay, which is atypical and a direct interest in the topic and discussion, and the essay. Sixth House, Sun 27°23′ Aquarius conjunct Chiron 27°27′ – with a 4 minute orb, and past the Chiron Return, feeling expert. Recommended antiheroes in fiction: Terry Pratchett’s Rincewind character starting in The Color of Magic (before the Chiron Return), and Lu-Tze aka “The Sweeper” character in Thief of Time, “…for is it not written [in the book I wrote, in my pocket here]…” (after the Chiron Return). Also atypical, my leaving a note in a discussion board anywhere – the zero allegiance feeling, and teflon. On “pain of chiron”, when you are so aware of how everyone else’s inner animal is feeling, how can you tell whose pain it is. Can I feel your reading the post here. Thanks AstroFix and everyone contributing, for your experiences with SunChiron predominant. Now, what was it I was searching for inputs on, before the Time Warp at the Fingertips: is it Arrogance or exuding a Condescending Air to know what you know in the Gut, to see the gap between pretense and a solution Right Now, and be Doing It. Musically. Playfully. Customizing Everything, even a post. OBTW, Beautiful Chiron Key, heading the essay, love the hand-crafted wings.

    • Ana

      I must also confess: I’ve been searching for astrological articles on the web for a few years and that was also the first time I felt like writing my opinion and what I felt! I read all the contributions on Sun+Chiron which I never did before because they are often so many and the issue never was so interesting as it was now.
      Once again: congratulation for the website.

  • can’t wait for my Sun conjunction chiron (next year:-), great essay:-)

    • Is there anything in particular you are looking forward to?

  • Love this site and use it a lot for my research. I really love the stream-of-though manner in which you offer your intuitive insights. I have a Sun-Chiron conjunction at 28/29 Gemini on the cusp of the 11th and 12th (in exact opposition to Uranus/Saturn!). Everything you wrote applies to me. I am a lifelong healing dancer, now a yoga/qi gong teacher and student of Chinese Internal Martial Arts. I have also studied astrology the past several years. I am in the midst of building a business out of all my alternative-healing interests and explorations. Reiki, herbs, nutrition, shamanic breathwork, you name it, I am doing what I can to reap gold from what I study and compile it into my own personal system of spiritual cultivation and self-discovery.

    Just wanted to add my info to your affirmations. And send some deep loving gratitude for the work that you do. Blessed.

  • barbara

    Hi Michelle,
    no need to repeat how much I love your insights..
    sun-chiron is such a dominant issue for me right now…I hope my experience can be of some help to anybody else who feels that some precious secret is still hiding in his/her complex chart.Since I badly need to let my creativity flow, I’ll put it as a recipe.
    basic ingredient: a 6th house sun-chiron-north node conjunction in aries (a bit too much of coincidences,so it would show the need to fill the identity hole and learn to be someone far as I’ve got it).then we add an all-aspecting cancer moon, particularly hard on venus and trining chiron,(a strong pull from instincts,emotions,imprinting from early experiences with mother) let’see how it blends with the first a powerful(or heavy) pisces mercury shows up(thank God), and flavours tend to get more’s a she-cake, so what about venus?it’s in aries, retrograde, square moon, conjunct saturn(which is-surprise!- in 7th) and quincunx pluto,opposed to libra rising.than God again that an aries mars is trine sun and chiron, and neptune trines sun-moon-mercury-chiron and north node.
    driven by deep pain,loneliness and recurring crises,I’ve spent years trying to process every bit of the cake into something meaningful..maybe under the present uranus-sun etc conjunction and just after a dramatic saturn on asc., some light is appearing at the end of the tunnel,giving me the chance of a different”life part II”as i like to call it(I’m 44).maybe a good shake to the moon-mercury-neptune water trine can on and support a fierce mars ,kept for so long in the shadow by ancient monsters,maybe the nightmare of collapse can be challenged through effort, and maybe..who knows?the battered venus can flourish,feeling for the first time that powerful allies have come to her rescue.this is the best I can do right now,and it feels like an emergency surgery.the cake is getting easier to digest…and I’m very cautiously trying new recipes..and to accept the fact that many other people have been blessed with much better ingredients..and many other haven’t
    (I can’t help being epic in writing, blame it on my jupiter aspecting everything)
    hugs and heplful transits to everybody,

  • Emma

    Just the article I was looking for. I may reading my chart wrong. 😉 But it seems I have Vesta, Sun, Chiron all in Gemini and the 9th House. Anyway about the article, it’s really spot-on! I have Saturn opposing Sun and my father figure was not a positive figure. The bosses I had too, (only two jobs but both men) were either lacking in human decency or were abusive, not only to me but all those around them. As a fellow Virgo Moon (12th House) and Virgo rising, I guess this also affects how much I want to be able to find my way in the world. I lost my job recently and it’s been tough finding another. Although I’m glad that I’m no longer at my old job, it hurt a lot that my contract wasn’t renewed because of something I couldn’t control like ethnicity. (It was abroad, so discrimination can’t be bought up) It made me question a lot of things especially about myself and who I am. Still am. On May there’s a Solar Eclispe in my 12th House, so maybe I’ll get some answers there.

    Powerful article.

  • Michelle,

    This post got me, as did the Merc. conjunct Chiron post. I’m getting old and I’ve tried a zillion things. Have a swack of planets in Scorpio in 2nd House – Merc. 10/Chiron 13/ Sun 14/S.Node 23…..Venus also in 2nd. In 11th House Leo (sq. all this) Pluto 14/Mars 19/Sat. 22. 12 House Virgo Moon + Neptune conj. Libra ASC> I’ve been relentless abt. trying to let go of/understand the pain. I’m a musician and a mystic and so damned sensitive, living is “excruciating”. There isn’t a counselour/Bach flower remedy/ affirmation and on and on I haven’t tried. Except one….deeply exploring the meaning of Chiron in my chart. You know, like your picture, I have this gut feeling that it is the key. Oh, yeah, astrologers have said…”Hmmm…Chiron on your Sun, that accounts for all the pain or “You’re a shaman, with that placement in Scorpio” NO ONE explored it, possibly becs. they just didn’t know themselves that much abt. Chiron, like me. Your post sent me to tears…that’s a good thing. I could have written those posts, both of them. Remeber Roberta Flack’s “killing me softly”….well, that ‘s what it was like. Went to M. Reinhart’s site and am going to try and get a reading. Thank you. This was just what I needed. One of the posts above said it was like an angel speaking, your take on Chiron conj. the Sun. They were right.

  • Moonbeam63

    Wow I am awe struck by your interpretation! it goes right into my heart! The quest for healing myself (Chiron square Sun) combined with the Sagittarian Sun Quest. I feel worthless and flawed. I was told that only through work (sun in 6th) I would be getting over this.

    • Thanks for reading Ms. Sag Sun in the 6th house 🙂

  • Ross


    I have my Chiron and Sun in Gemini. Not sure if you can still call it a conjunction because they are 11 degrees apart (my North Node is actually in between)…. but the 3rd paragraph you wrote is very precise. I have celiac disease and I am self-diagnosed. Other relatives also have it and found out because of me and their health has improved a lot. I could say I have suffered a lot because of this weird disease… and ever since I’ve known I have it I have been very interested in alternative medicine and healing with diet and foods…. to the point that now I would like to study something related to this. I also have my MC in Cancer so I think that’s a good sign. ??

    And about not liking being the center of attention…. that doesn’t resonate with me… maybe it’s because I have my Moon in Leo in the 10th and it’s the midpoint between my Sun/Asc as well as my Mercury/Mars. ??

    Also about the father…. very spot on. My dad has a “martyr complex” :/

    • Hi Ross,

      A Jupiter-Sun aspect or even Jupiter in aspect to your Leo Moon would enhance attention-seeking needs and behaviors, and liking to be the center of attention. Venus-Jupiter could be similar, or Venus in Leo.

      Very interesting about how your awareness of your disease has helped others.

  • ayu


    I am very new to astrology or at least I just found out a few days ago my Sun Conjuncts Chiron in 6th House Taurus. It’s supposed to be a strong aspect! So I read what you have written – does it only apply to us guys with Sun aspects with Chiron? I have always thought that all human beings who can think felt that way!!! So, I am so wrong! It’s all because of my Chiron! Gosh and  I am starting to read books on Dalai Lama, Ghandi etc you get the idea. I just want to know what the heck am I doing in this world really?

    I love your article and pardon my ramblings! 🙂


    • Hi ayu, 

      Thank you for reading 🙂

      I have always thought that all human beings who can think felt that way!!!
      Why don’t you ask some of the human beings close to you and find out 🙂 (Then check their chart to see if they have a Sun/Chiron aspect)

  • Anna

     “Having a father who has been deeply wounded”
    Dad had a schizophrenia (is a psychologically weak person).

    “Feeling that
    other men in your life have caused you almost insurmountable pain.”
    Well, they never did anything good to me. And UNFORTUNATELY I don’t even have a chance to make them feel miserable as they do, because I automatically hate all men and can’t even look them in the eye.

    The funny part I don’t even think that these issues are worth healing, because they’re insignificant compared to problems many other people have.

    • I think it’s a mistake to compare problems. It’s not a competition (not that that’s what you were inferring).

      • Emma

        I think so too. I’ve lost friendships over this. Not just suffering as a competition but over everything.

  • Katey

    Wow!!! It’s amazing how much chiron is intrinsically felt. It’s so over-looked. This is amazing.

    • I’m glad you liked it. Thank you for reading 🙂

  • Earnest Dodge

    Sun at 19 Taurus (11th) semisextile Chiron at 19 Aries (intercepted in the 10th).   Ruler of the Pisces 10th, Jupiter, in the 8th, (where it is both contra-parallel and contra-antiscial to the Sun.)  I see this as a planetary picture of my having grown up feeling orphaned, as my mother (ruled by House 10) didn’t raise me and I’ve never met my father.  

    At age 30 my Sun had Secondary Progressed to the Sextile with Chiron (and Conjunction with natal Saturn), and I spent two years in a mental hospital– the Chironic wound.  

    • Which sign and house was your Sun during that progression?

      • Earnest Dodge

        It conjoined my natal and then my Secondary Progressed Saturn in the 12th!

  • “Feeling that other people are uncomfortable when you are the center of
    attention. Trouble with feeling that you do not have a central purpose
    or reason for existing. Difficulty understanding what it is you are
    ‘supposed’ to be doing with your life, yet having an overwhelming sense
    that you are supposed to be doing something…”

    Obvious very important and empathetic wording. I don’t know where your Sun in relation to Chiron is, but it really feels like you are writing this from a personal perspective. I know this feeling, but still never thought it could be a Chiron in the 10th in Aries square to Mars in the 1st in Cancer. 10th and 1st, and dynamic signs like Aries and Cancer are really difficult about working out these energies.

    For me, trying not to be negative in labeling a dynamic and obstructed aspect which brings awareness as “difficult”.. but as we know with electricity, sometimes an abundance of energy takes the path of least resistance and sometimes the way that the energy is discharged can cause damage.. so with this, stepping out of bounds, and yet being really sensitive about other people’s egos makes it easier to both get the buttons pushed, be manipulated AND and at the same time encounter people under an experience who gets their feelings hurt because one is no longer willing to comply to some of the rules seeing them for what they are..

    And yes, the inner hero thing.. one can have that awareness with Mars/Sun contacts, but Sun/Chiron can bring out a more of teaching others and the self to be brave.. outside of the normal seen areas. I think it may also have an essence of being an orphan in it too. An alienated feeling, a hurt feeling and teaching or attempting to teach others out of the lessons that have been learned the hard way.

    an Unconventional teacher.. a “Maverick” the entire vibe really works. And this is one of the most personal delineations I have read so far that you have written. I know there must be others out there, but this one is a gem!

    Thanks Michelle!

    AET 🙂

    • Thanks, AET. I like your use of the word “orphan.”

      My Sun is conjunct Chiron.

  • Nice explanation… liked it – “A hero’s inner journey.”

    • Michelle

      Thanks 🙂

  • Gabby R.

    Every word is so true. I have the quincunx, Scorpio/Aries, Chiron right on the Dsc. 
    Transiting Chiron will soon conjoin my Jupiter, square my Neptune and trine my Mars.

    • Michelle

      How has the Chiron/Descendant experience been for you?

      • Gabby R.

        Relationship wise: My 1st serious relationship was at age 19 (Venus-Saturn trine) and lasted for  seven years with an Aries man. Harmonious, supporting, honest, healing from parental wounding (2 Scorpio parents).  Came out of it as a new person ready to experience life.
        Next time I fell in love was at age 30 with a married man was an extremely hurting story. Took 5 years to come over it. I gave everything, received a wall made of stone in the end, like I had never even existed, without explanation or simply saying good by. 
        Right now I have no relationship (36) and really ready for love after years being alone. (I have the Venus-Chiron quincunx as well.)

        Other: Joyce Mason told me once commenting in a Chiron topic, that Chiron on the Dsc makes me be a good communicator with horses. My horse for me is almost like a best friend. I could spend my whole day with him. I even changed my carrier from business management for a dressage coach, and I’m so happy with it! 

        Deep friendships! Migth not belong to 7th house, but I have always had very deep and long lasting friendships where I have often played the role of a counselor or helper.

        • Michelle

          Close friendships do belong to the 7th house. 

          I’m sorry that you have no one right now. Why do you think you’re ready for love now?

          • Gabby R.

            Because I put my carrier on track. So I can put my focus elsewhere.
            I feel free from the past.And I just feel this way. 🙂

            • Michelle

              That’s fantastic 🙂

  • Michelle

    @Netuhria No problem 🙂

  • Michelle

    Thank you for sharing your experience Netuhria. 

  • Netuhria

    Hello again! I just comment on your post Sun / Chiron Aspects and did not realize thatthe computer was logged in with another Twitter profile. Sorry and please disregard it. I follow @ astrofix8 profile. I am @ netuhria.

  • Chiron 18 Piscis square Sun 15 Gemini 3th, conjunct ASC 22 Piscis, trine Neptune 8th.

    Hello, Michele! It’s always a pleasure to read your posts and I agree with every sentence of this Chiron / Sun. Its synthesis is simply excellent. Congratulations and thank you for the chance to read something with which I identify 100%. Let me tell you a little about my journey in this life, maybe this story can collaborate with other studies.Already in my childhood I was interested in occult and metaphysical healing linked. I grew up this way, feeling very alone in this sense, trying to satisfy my curiosity on the subject by myself. Time passed and I became a biologist, passionate about the Earth and the lessons of Nature.Astrology came last and still amaze and delight me since I began my studies 12 years ago, and this happened in a moment of pain, loss and transformation. Since then, I do not remember having lived a day without thinking, speak, study, meditate and breathe Astrology. Of course, this has changed my life. Honestly, at first I had no idea where my studies would take me, and so natural and almost inevitable, I became a professional astrologer, a healer, teacher and therapist, so they say about me. I found my way or he found me or I’ve always been there, who knows. And so I think at this point, certain that I never thought this way in other phases of my brief life.Lots of light and joy in your chirotic way.


    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

  • Giftedsexypsychicgoddess

    michelle, thank YOU woman.. once AGAIN.. you provide a VITAL peace of my journey 

    • Michelle

      Thank you for the wonderful compliment Giftedsexypsychicgoddess. Excellent name 🙂

  • That’s pretty key up there

    • Michelle

      Glad you like it 🙂

  • billow

    From the chironic viewpoint, chiron is between a trine (Juno point) and an .oppostion (empty).  From the sun viewpoint, the sun is between an opposition (Uranus point by 3 degrees) and a trine (Mercury point).   As the wheel goes.    Natal mercury squres juno, and trines chiron.  Those transits would say something about the energy setup at the time of birth?

    • billow

      I meant to tag this post to the post in response to Michelle’s whatdyathink about conjunction/opposition internal/external.

    • Michelle

      I’m not sure I understand..
      What does “.opposition (empty)” mean?

      • billow

        I have no planet placement there.  The quincunx is odd.  I have read (somewhere again)  that there are waxing aspects that are what is to come?  And waning aspects about what is already been done?  And was mulling over my quincunx in regards to that which might mean nothing at all.  Especially since the sun is a fast mover so that a persons born with different suns would have different experiences in relation to chiron. 

        The important thing I have gotten from this conversation is the hero thing.  I am readjusting my thinking to that take because it gets me out of the “wounded” sinkhole and the idea that there is some kind of “healer” thing “responsibility”.  I find all that very confusing especially since astrologists continually pin “wounded” on Virgo, which I take personally.  It seems to give people the right to beat Virgo up like it’s a favor or something.  You may be right in your statement that virgo is misunderstood. 

        • Michelle

          Waxing aspects get closer together as you get older. Waning aspects are already separating by the time you are born and continue to separate as you get older.

          Virgo is misunderstood, especially when it comes to people with the Sun in Virgo (in my opinion :))

          This is a bit off-topic but, there’s something missing in the Virgo puzzle, and I’m not sure if its Chiron. So far, I don’t see Virgo as being the natural home of Chiron. I still tend to see Sagittarius as a closer fit. 

          When thinking about Virgo I am continually drawn back to the idea of Virgo as crafts-person. When I think about how undervalued skilled trades and crafts are, I find many correlations to Virgo’s problems. People rarely appreciate the time, training, practice and mastery that goes into making something “perfect” and they don’t want to pay for it either. People with skills often have to undervalue their work. Virgo, along with the 6th house, are the most closely aligned with employment (rather than vocation).

          People in the trades – plumbing, carpentry, hair stylists, etc… – are frequently looked down upon as being lesser. People are willing to use what they make, or employ their services, but rarely are they going to invite their plumber over for dinner or try to engage him in a real conversation. Even if you’re the most skilled and amazing hairstylist in the world, with a celebrity clientele, there will always people who look down upon you and think that you “just cut hair.” Virgo’s skills get taken for granted and they often find themselves becoming doormats. 

          Virgo can’t get no respect.

          • Michelle

            Also, everyone thinks that Virgo is boring. If you say “practice makes perfect” people start rolling their eyes. Everyone likes it when things are efficient and work flawlessly but few people want to acknowledge how much effort goes into making that happen.

            Poor Virgo :'(

            • PREACH IT SISTER, PREACH!!!  Ooooh, this is one of the things that “gets my knickers in a wad”!  Folks wonder why their houses, cars, etc are falling down around their ears saying “but it’s new”!! Give me the old stuff made by craftspeople any time over this new crap.

              • billow

                And good craftsmen are getting harder and harder to find.  An acquaintence, bricklayer by trade, tells me that nobody wants to work with their hands anymore.

              • LB

                Everything you said. 🙂

              • Michelle

                Lol…actually, I’m a little worried I’m being too preachy. My Jupiter return is in one week, right on the 8/9 cusp.

                • billow

                  Let er rip!  I won’t hold it against you.  : )

                • Having Jupiter in Gemini,  and in aspect to Mercury, Saturn and Pluto I totally get your concern as I feel the same way…a lot. Hence my reluctance to speak up. However with the mega preachy BS already going on that’s designed to keep folks stupid, the counterbalance of truth is desperately needed. So, if telling it like it is is being preachy, like Billow said, then let it rip!! 😉


                  • Michelle

                    I love that song. That version is fantastic too 😀

                    • Michelle

                      Aaron Neville is an Aquarius 🙂

                • LB

                  In keeping with the Sun/Chiron theme as well as your Jupiter Return, here’s my musical contribution. 

                  The lyrics kind of sum it all up for me.  Ironically, Bob Dylan wrote that gem of a song (among others) while he was recovering from a hand injury.

                  Thanks, MsFullroller – I love “Tell It Like It is”.

            • LB

              With Chiron in the 6th (and a packed 2nd), I appreciate anyone who takes their job seriously enough to pay attention to the details and take pride in their work – not just the process, but the end result too.  I think it’s rare to find that kind of work ethic. 

              ANY job is a job worth doing well and is to be respected and appreciated.  No such thing as a job (or person) that doesn’t matter.   You’re right – we do undervalue people based on their professions.  We also encourage fast and sloppy, more so now than ever before.  Ever watch the television show, “Holmes on Homes”?   

              I like your idea of Virgo and craftspeople.    

              • Everything you said! 😉  Venus in the 6th here. It’s gotta be done right and look right to last a long time only to be done over later because of aesthetic changes, not sloppy workmanship.

                • LB

                  I hear you, MsFullroller –  Planned Obsolescence and Perceived Obsolescence have had a huge effect.

                  Aside from the workmanship issues (via our physical creations), we can also treat the people and situations we’re entrusted with in a less than mindful way.  Even sloppy paperwork or customer service can cause harm, as can sloppy care-giving (for people and pets).  I think we often forget we’re dealing with other beings who have feelings and needs just like we do. 

                  Of course like Michelle said, this goes both ways.  The service provider deserves as much respect as the person who’s being served.  We’re like pieces of a puzzle – no two pieces are exactly alike, yet every one of us helps hold it all together.

              • Michelle

                I do watch Holmes on Homes sometimes.

              • billow

                Some do believe that Vulkanus is the true ruler of Virgo.

                • Michelle

                  I think it’s a good match. 

                  But, I have to add this…
                  Rulerships were not originally set up based on sign/planet affinity so the whole discussion of who rules what based on similarities is kind of moot (even though I like thinking about it).

                  ” the arrangement is based upon a planetary order which considers the length of their orbital periods (i.e., – Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Sarturn), first introduced by the Greeks.”


                  It starts at Leo, goes to Capricorn, and then repeats backward.

                  “In Book I of his Tetrabiblos Ptolemy gives a clear explanation of the reasons for the arrangement of sign rulerships, showing how they are based upon a symmetrical pattern that extends from the luminaries. As in most ancient symbolism, the pivotal point in the underlying philosophy is the relationship of the Sun to the Earth. Hence the distribution of planets to signs begins at the cusp between Cancer and Leo where the power of the Sun is greatest (at least in the northern hemisphere where astrology evolved). “

                  • billow

                    I wasn’t understanding this till I saw the chart in the link.  I see why and how  but I don’t get the logic.

                  • billow

                    I wasn’t understanding this till I saw the chart in the link.  I see why and how  but I don’t get the logic.

          • billow

            Maybe that’s why I love my handymen.  I think jupiter conjuncting my sun stunted my craftsmanship, but I do have a fairly good head for business, except that I have ethical limits which is a drawback in the world of business today.

  • Leah-Nine

    An enlightening and poignant post, as always. Thanks, Michelle.

    • Michelle

      Thank you for reading Leah-Nine. Do you have Chiron and the Sun in aspect?

  • Zoa

    This is one of my favorite aspects.
    I have Sun in Aquarius (8th house) trine Chiron in Gemini (12th house)
    It’s all about understanding the pain, finding the missing piece and thus finding your own destiny as a result. No one else can do it for you, only you can face your own wounds.
    And sometimes you have to accept some things aren’t meant to be healed, you have to carry them with you so to remember what you’ve gone through. At some point, the hero and his wounds become one.

    • Michelle

      Chiron seems a bit like an antihero to me. 

      Antihero (for anyone who doesn’t know what that means):
      In fiction, an antihero[1] (sometimes antiheroine as feminine) is generally considered to be a protagonist whose character is at least in some regards conspicuously contrary to that of the archetypal hero, and is in some instances its antithesis. Some consider the word’s meaning to be sufficiently broad as to additionally encompass the antagonist who (in contrast to the archetypal villain) elicits considerable sympathy or admiration.

      • billow

        Forest Gump???

        • Michelle

          Lol…hm…I wonder how Chiron would feel about that comarison.

      • Zoa

        That’s an interesting perspective. Chiron to me represents the wounded hero, even in pain he carries on with his destiny.

        • Michelle

          He is a hero, but his quest lies within himself rather than outside himself.

          • billow

            But yet the chironic thing is a result of the external setup?  Like getting caught in the middle of something.   Or if one is to believe in choice, the setup we choose to come into so we can progress past it?

            • Michelle

              Whether you experience it from the outside or the inside is probably shown by the aspect. People with the conjunction might have more of an internal urge to go on a “quest within”, while people with the opposition might experience the urge to “quest within” as pressure from the outside. Free-styling here…what do you think?

              • billow

                I think you excel at free styling, that’s what I think.

                This is the part where other aspects in the chart and transits might play in?  For some reason chiron does not seem like a singular stand alone guy to me?  It’s more like what hits, the coping mechanism, and the strength to carry through and on?  Each hero carries a candle that may light the way for another?

                With my quincunx, I am very aware of being a product of my experiences and the times in which I live(d).

                • Michelle

                  Thanks billow 🙂

                  For some reason chiron does not seem like a singular stand alone guy to me?  
                  Something to think about.

      • billow

        I ended up musing on Tina’s choice about “creative self expression.”  Didn’t mean to, but Neptune retro-ing around chiron brought dreams of course.  I’d have to juice that self expression with “you lead the life of a human being, which is the opposite of being a hero on a pedestal.” 

        Creative self expression is so “key”.  Knowing that, is what protects, preserves, and gets me through.  It is like a meter against stagnation.  If I get in redundant, hard energy situations that are overly controlled, it zaps my creative energy and will take me down.  The same thing happens if I over extend myself (sun/jupiter?) for others or for a cause.  I’ve been known to stay too long at the fair, but when the creative meter goes red zone, my creativity moves to how do I get out of this.  So my new goal is not to step into it in the first place.

        The rewards are in the creative expression itself.  A pedestal only alienates me from creative expression.  Puts everything on the top shelf where I can’t reach it.  However, constant criticism of my expression and lifestyle can throw me in the dumper. That would be submitting myself to wounding.

        If the need for creative self expression has to to with sun/chiron as you suggest, I would have to say it is the thing that keeps me free and away from self destruction.  It cannot be jeopardized or I cease to exist.     

  • Davida

    Gemini Sun and Mars conjunct Gemini Chrion in the 9th. I feel like I have to spiritually censor myself for others to accept me for who I am. I tend to think outside of the box, and unfortunately, most of the people I know are limited to that box I stand out of.
    I recently have given birth to a Aqu/Pisces cusp daughter, with Aqu Sun, Merc, Mars & Nept conjunct Pisces Chiron in the 8th. A small part of me is worried, yet intrigued as to how these aspects may play out in her life.

    • billow

      Censoring, I can relate, believe it or not.  I often feel I need to be less so others can be more, or I will be clubbed to death by a flock of flying monkeys.

      • Michelle

        I often feel I need to be less so others can be more
        Especially in the house where Chiron is?

        • billow

          That would be the third.  Oh dear, would that be my overbearing biosibs?  Shut up Michelle I don’t want to talk about them anymore. 

          Chiron is now in my progressed first???

    • Michelle

      The idea of “censoring” for Chiron/Sun really works for me. In the myth I don’t remember reading that Chiron ever had to do that. It makes me wonder if the opposite, not censoring yourself, is what would make you a “healing” example to people in your life of how to live a more personally significant spiritual life. What do you think?

      • billow

        Well, it just ain’t that easy a thing to hide under a basket.  That’s for sure.  Some people get me.  Some want to destroy me.  But I have that saturn square pluto thing going on.  Sometimes the censoring is necessary to my physical survival.

        There is a larger group purpose that overrides my need to be front and center.  Perhaps it is more editing than censorship, which basically has to do with my approach.  You dumb ass really doesn’t work so well, does it?

        I do believe example is very powerful.  It’s not something I try to do, set example.  But I do think living an authenitic life is something that just can’t be parsed.  And it reads for those not intent on ripping it apart and destroying it.  They really can’t I’ve decided.  I’ll just pull up stakes and move on.

        This is a good one for me.  I think I have come to the conclusion that a workable life with workable relationships are enough for me.  There is an art to that.  The art of living.  It takes work but it is very rewarding.  Reminder:  I can be a bit blotto.  Jupiter conjuncts my sun by 3 degrees.  : )

        • Michelle

          more editing than censorshipLike – but maybe that’s the Virgo in me 😉

          • billow

            if so, thank my lucky stars I’m still alive.

          • billow

            Ooh, I was just thinking about the class reunion I attended a couple of years ago.  My astro twin was not there, but she was being tch tch tched by a group because she is still running around like a revolutionary shouting dumb ass at everyone.  How she survived I don’t know.  Unless being previously married with kids offered her some protection.  Of course, I stuck up for her because on her recent blow through town I ran into her and we just screamed together.  But anyway, my classmates all seem aware of this noxious force, call it the social norms, and are firm believers in sucking it up and not making waves because it’s what it takes to survive.  They could all agree with me that at least she was telling the truth, as we see it of course. 

  • Michelle

    Jeff Bridges as the Big Lebowski is so Sun/Chiron imo:

    Warning: language.

  • billow

    I should add I have a strong feeling that there is a taboo against becoming who I am.  The structures are not comfortable with that.

  • Pretty nice. I have a tight quintile between them. I reached a conclusion that I can’t search for a path to follow, I just need to create my own, but I’m still clueless in what to do. Amd I have this sense that I should be doing something, to have an objetive, but I have no objetive in being alive at all. I’d love to feel like I have a purpose, but I just don’t have anything to live for. I gennerally become a guide for healling to my friends, since they are all crazy and empty just like me, I try to help’em feel better even though I can’t do it myself and I gennerally succed (I just think of it as helping them, ’cause I hate the idea of healling). Aside from this, all other stuff here really matches me a lot.

    • Michelle

      I like the word “helping” too. 

      Out of the emptiness comes the purpose. Eventually you have to come up with your own purpose rather than waiting for someone to give one to you. Anyway – just my thoughts. Does that make sense?

      • I relate to what Low Hale Gaze said and your reply.

        My Aries Sun/Mars read this and have been tapping their feet while saying to me “Will you hurry up and find out what the hell it is your are supposed to be doing, find your path or whateva, so we can get on with it!! You’ve been searching for HOW long now?!”.

        • Michelle

          Maybe there is no single purpose. Sometimes I feel that way. Maybe existing is enough. Then I start to get waaaay abstract existential.

          • You’re right. I’ve been struggling with that a lot in the past few years. After all, we are human beings, not human doings.

          • billow

            I don’t know about purpose, but there is this thing I’ve become aware of.  I call it the magical mystery tour factor.  When I venture out with friend(s) my purpose is to let go of everything and just let time take us wherever.  It works kind of like this, my friend drops her car off for repair and we continue on in my car until her car can be picked up, time unknown.  We venture wherever and then end up back at the garage as her car is being driven out of the shop finished.  She always wants to repeat that experience but I know we can’t try to replicate it because that is impossible.  I have another friend who is aware of the factor.  We bascially just do lunch.  She is aware of the zone we can go to in conversation.  And I will sometimes comment we didn’t get there today, sorry.  And she will reply, it’s okay I know it’s there somewhere always waiting for me.

            Replication is impossible.  I found this out after spontaneously touring with a male friend of a friend once.  He was so enamored(?) he wanted a date.  It was a complete and total disaster to try to recreate it.  I knew at my young age that that spontaneous night was magic and was simply terrified that he wanted to cement.  I really have to be loose for it to happen. 

            Are there openings for magical mystery tour guides? 

          • But to exist just for the sake of existing is just so boring…

            • Michelle

              You have to give yourself a reason.

          • LB

            At its best, Chiron always touches others and in doing so serves a greater purpose.  For instance, you sharing your astrological insights helps us to clarify various aspects of ourselves in a way that can feel very empowering, even healing. 

            I think this relates to your question to Davida about uncensored Chiron being a spiritual example.  When Chiron is wise and strong and well-intentioned, I don’t think its effect can ever be totally censored.  Even when we thing we’re hiding – or making very little difference – others notice and feel the pull.  Whether or not they resist is up to them. 

            I like your idea of Chiron as Antihero.  At various stages of evolution, Chiron can also be the Scapegoat or Victim.  Once we embrace our gifts more fully and stop allowing others to define us is when we really have the opportunity to lead a more meaningful life.  Which is not the same as a perfectly ordered life.

            • Michelle

              Even when we thing we’re hiding – or making very little difference – others notice and feel the pull

              So true… 

              There is a great quote and I can’t remember how it goes now, but it’s something about how our coming into being is the universe trying to realize itself. By denying ourselves and not reaching the full potential of our uniqueness, we deny the universe its full expression as well. It’s our purpose to become completely and wholly ourselves. …something like that.

              That quote really helped me to come to terms with how there could be so many people in the world and why each and every life matters, and how each and every person is different and does hold a unique position that no one else can occupy. It’s also a possible reason why when we hold back and censor ourselves we are doing everyone (and everything) a disservice.

              • LB

                That’s lovely, Michelle. 🙂 

        • LB

          You guys are ahead of the game if you’re actively searching.  Before my Return, I just knew there was something missing.  Then I searched.  I can’t say I found my path, more like it found me.  Who knows though?  I think Virgo Rising (and other Virgo placements) always want to feel as if they have a purpose.

          • Michelle

            People with Virgo placements seem to have a greater drive to find the right kind of work. Every career reading I’ve done so far has been for people with the ascendant, Sun or other planets in Virgo.

            • Dang it, I have sun, moon and MC in virgo.  You read me.

              • Michelle

                I did one on Tuesday for someone with the MC in Virgo.

            • Michelle

              They also seemed to be the most confused about what work is the right kind of work – at least right now.

      • Well, it makes sense for me, even though I feel like I can’t create matter from vaccum right now. But how did anything came into existance if not by Chaos hands herself? Before existance came into being, there was just nothing out there. And everything is nothing and nothing is everything. I expect me to be able to find something to live for soon enough, since I will probably live too long and lasting, it would be terribly boring to live fulfilling small superficial stuff for the rest of my life.

        • billow

          Uranus is conjuncting my natal Chaos.  In some sort of way natal chaos really fits my early life experience and the now dissolution of the bio unit.  Thanks for the laugh.  You do realize you have a sense of humor?  : D

    • billow

      I am wondering if my tribe of nameless non status defined folks are known to have alot of stories about where they have been and what they have experienced.  The journey can take one to alot of places less travelled.

  • billow

    Ha ha quincunx.  Virgo/Aquarius.  I have to own it so it can’t be stolen.  I have had problems with bio family and bio family look alikes, breaking me into pieces.  Like I am supposed to explain myself all the time.  I don’t have those answers.  Get to know me and form your own conclusions if that’s what you need to know.  The biggest compliment I ever received was offhand, at one of those uncomfortable junctures, when someone said “she is what she is.”   I have no clue what that is, but I liked the freedom of it.  It’s a work in progress.

    • Michelle

      Like I am supposed to explain myself all the time. Oof – so hard. 

       It’s a work in progress.
      Sure is. 

  • Zodiacal_macaw_1210

    How ironic. I had a premonition that I was going to read this article. I’m glad that you did.

    As I’ve mentioned in a couple of posts on Facebook, I once spoke to an astrologer on a different forum and I mentioned to her all of my Chiron aspects. She told me that I needed to pay close attention to all of the aspects that Chiron makes because it aspected a lot of my important placements. You’ve helped clarify one of the aspects I have.

    I feel that Chiron in a water house has a more powerful role than in any other house because the wounds are very deep and rooted, not to forget very emotional, psychological and spiritual.

    I have Sun in Sagittarius trine Chiron in Leo – Sun in the 12th House and Chiron in the 8th.

    I’ve also heard that Chiron looks like the hand-cap sign / placard. It’s an interesting idea that you look at it as a key. After reading what you wrote, I see it now 🙂

    • Michelle

      Ah! That is amazing. I started it 2 days ago so maybe you picked up on that 😉

      I’m reluctant to say that any house position of Chiron is more powerful than any other just because every person has pain in life, and it seems competitive, or experience-negating to say that one person’s pain is worse than another’s. However, with Chiron in the 8th house you might have a stronger urge to tackle the wounding no matter how uncomfortable – although the flip side of that position is that you fear if you try to deal with it you’ll just “die.”

      I’ve never thought of Chiron’s glyph being like a handicap sign.

  • I’m literally typing through my tears on this one and I thought the Uranus/Pluto post got to me but this one went straight to the heart. I don’t think there is one sentence where I can say, nah not me. The crazy part is I don’t have an obvious aspect between these two but this post is as if an angel has spoken directly to me. And I’m not being dramatic in saying that. The obvious connection is not in the progressed chart either.
    I get confused on how to spot the minor aspects sometimes. Do you start in the direction from the ascendant? It looks like to me it’s a vigintile. (7H) Chiron @ 23 Pis 13′, (8H) Sun  @ 11 Ari 42′

    • Michelle

      I’m happy you like the key motif because I have about 20 beautiful key photos picked out for the rest of the posts in the series. 

      I’ll say “well the key is…”. Chiron is tightly conjunct Mercury
      That’s so interesting because mine is too, and I do so much writing involving key words and key phrases.

      And I love those old skeleton keys along with the old doors that they are used on. 
      Me too!

      Yes, start in the direction from the ascendant (counter-clockwise). 
      You would take the remaining degrees in Pisces (6.47) and add them to the degrees in Aries (11.42) which would equal 18.29 degrees.

    • billow

      I love that “the key is”   .   .  .   like could we address the issue we are here to address.  It seems so virgo.  And it could be worse, I could say, cut the crap and let’s focus on the work and how we can achieve that.  Perhaps the answer is finding the right key to open the door, but sometimes even dynamite doesn’t work.  I hate manipulation and having to be crafty.  My disdain for that is so unlike Mercury the trickster.

      • Exactly!

      • Michelle

        The right key. Mercury is so crafty. He’ll pull the rug out from under your feet.

  • Anonymous

    YAY! You’re continuing your Chiron series. I really enjoyed the writeup you did on Moon/Chiron. This one is great too. I really look forward to reading this series. Thank you!

    • Michelle

      Lol… I knew I’d get back to it eventually.

  • LB

    My Sun and Chiron are parallel, and I relate to most of this.  My life has changed drastically over the years – I’d have occasional glimpses of who I was meant to be, but sensing how much I lacked (or would have to give up), I tried to hide from who I really was (Chiron opposite 12th house Uranus)  Sometimes I still struggle with issues of vulnerability relating to self-worth, although those same issues have served to make me more aware and therefore more compassionate and accepting of others.  I try, anyway.

    My “purpose” didn’t begin to make sense to me until after my Chiron Return when my imperfections finally forced me to make a decision to either “get busy living, or get busy dying”.  My old way of life, including most of the people in it, gradually fell away as I came into my own.  I’ve read where that’s not uncommon with a retrograde Chiron.  I think I always knew that if and when I ever fully embraced my uniqueness, it would socially isolate me to some extent, and that’s been true (Chiron in Aquarius).

    If you haven’t already seen it, here’s a short video worth checking out:

    I really enjoyed this post, Michelle.  As usual, your descriptions are spot-on.  I’m trying to remember – do you have the conjunction?

  • LB

    My Sun and Chiron are parallel, and I relate to most of this.  My life has changed drastically over the years – I’d have occasional glimpses of who I was meant to be, but sensing how much I lacked (or would have to give up), I tried to hide from who I really was (Chiron opposite 12th house Uranus)  Sometimes I still struggle with issues of vulnerability relating to self-worth, although those same issues have served to make me more aware and therefore more compassionate and accepting of others.  I try, anyway.

    My “purpose” didn’t begin to make sense to me until after my Chiron Return when my imperfections finally forced me to make a decision to either “get busy living, or get busy dying”.  My old way of life, including most of the people in it, gradually fell away as I came into my own.  I’ve read where that’s not uncommon with a retrograde Chiron.  I think I always knew that if and when I ever fully embraced my uniqueness, it would socially isolate me to some extent, and that’s been true (Chiron in Aquarius).

    If you haven’t already seen it, here’s a short video worth checking out:

    I really enjoyed this post, Michelle.  As usual, your descriptions are spot-on.  I’m trying to remember – do you have the conjunction?

    • LB

      Adding – I may be more socially isolated, but the connections I do make (particularly through healing), feel connected at a much deeper soul-level and I always feel grateful.  I wouldn’t want anyone to think that having Chiron in Aquarius equals a life of isolation – my path has been uniquely my own.

      • Michelle

        My mom has the same Chiron placement. 

        • LB

          My mom had the same Chiron placement as you (in Aries).  Her Chiron was conjunct my 8th house South Node at 22 Aries – your Sun is pretty close.  Your Chiron is conjunct my 8th house BM Lilith/Sedna and opposite my Sun.  Interesting . . .

          • Michelle

            Huh…very interesting.

          • LB your SN is conjunct DH’s NN by minutes. Your BM Lilith/Sedna is conjunct my 8th house Ceres along with Michelle’s Chiron which is tightly conjunct Ceres. Yep, very interesting!

            • LB

              You know, I know these connections mean something (everything means something), but for now I’ll stick with “interesting”. *** scratches head ***

              • Michelle

                I don’t know what else to say at this point either.

      • billow

        Ha ha again.  I am often accused of being too grateful.  Somehow being laughed at for that doesn’t hold a candle to the beauty of what I have experienced in the seemingly smallest of things.  Tears of joy at the magnitude of beauty is the ultimate experience.

    • Michelle

      “get busy living, or get busy dying”I like that. I kind of feel that way already. I can’t imagine what I’ll feel at my Chiron Return. I hope by that point I’ll have done a good amount of putting myself back together. 

      I think I always knew that if and when I ever fully embraced my uniqueness, it would socially isolate me to some extent, and that’s been true (Chiron in Aquarius).
      That makes sense. Wanting to be accepted by the group could prevent you from risking alienation.

      do you have the conjunction?
      Yes: Sun 19 Aries conjunct Chiron 27 Aries in the 8th house.

      Going to watch the video now…

      • LB

        I’ve read some really positive things about Chiron Returns.  But like everything else about Chiron, my Return was unique.  In addition to other progressions and transits, transiting Saturn was conjunct my natal 12th house Pluto and square my Mars during this same time period, so it was challenging.  🙂

        • billow

          “my chiron return was unique”  .   .   .   There were so many aspects and life events to deal with, I can’t begin to know what threw me in the dumper.  In the end it grounded me like never before.  The Uranus trine Uranus transit is never far behind the chiron return????  That’s where I am at now.  According to Hand, that is deciding to live a life that is more authentic and appropriate for me???  Alot of separating the wheat from the chaff.

          • LB

            Sounds like we had similar experiences during our Chiron Returns, billow.  Mine “grounded” me too.  Actually, it felt more like my wings had been clipped for a time, although eventually I grew new stronger ones that fit me better anyway.  I started collecting butterfly images to remind me of the transformation.

            So you’re going through Uranus trine Uranus now?  I’m not there yet, but with Chiron in Aquarius, I think Uranus transits are always significant, and I’d look forward to the trine.  I saw from your other comment that your Sun/Chiron are quincunx in Virgo/Aquarius.  I also have quincunxes between some of my Aquarius and Virgo placements – from my perspective both want to serve, but in completely different (yet complementary) ways.  Learning how to honor them both is part of the journey, even if it does occasionally drive me craaaaazy.

            • billow

              I am curious (oh oh) about that Saturn Uranus Chiron thing because my Saturn return will follow on the heals of my Uranus trine Uranus transit.  Pluto is squaring my natal mercury at present and I feel that, as msfullroller would say, “key” in all this.  Natal mercury does trine natal chiron.  I am gaining awareness of the trickster at the very least.

              I am getting the feeling that virgo/aquarius set with my sun in virgo is about how best to bring myself to the group experience.  By the time a person hits 50 I think enough changes have happened that reassessment is needed.  Again no clue.  Winging it.  No sense going crazy about it or who will say the key is?  : )

  • Tina

    Wow! Fantastic interpretation that I’m still in awe over! I have Sun at 28 degrees Aries conjunct Chiron  1 degree Taurus. I too have a problem being the center of attention in crowds of people. I have a feeling this might explain my eagerness in tagging along with friends who’ve got strong Leo placements that love to bask in the limelight, while I sit on the side vicariously soaking some of it in through indirect proximity.

    • Michelle

      Thanks Tina. 

      Do you think your friends want you to be more than a tag along?

      Your Sun is conjunct my Chiron by the way 🙂

      • Tina

        Good question! I think with the case of tagging along it’s much more subjective and is mitigated and is hidden on the outside by a double Aries (sun & moon, therefore my moon is on your Chiron as well.. :). I’m also an Aqua rising…so being social is no problem, LOL! 🙂 It’s the ‘center of attention” that I have a harder time with.

        What I love so much much about what you said:

        “The key to healing is tapping into your creative self-expression. The
        key to healing is to get in touch with your destiny. The key to healing
        is bringing soul force to your life.”

        Oh SO TRUE!!!! I’m feeling this being even more the case with transiting Jupiter conjunct my Chiron right now…

        • Michelle

          Quite nice …thank you for the reply 🙂

  • Eliseplain

    Very interesting post -as usual. I have Sun 22 Virgo in the 12th house trine Chiron 27 Taurus in the 8th. All about healing, destiny and accepting myself…

    • Michelle

      Do you participate in any alternative healing practices?

  • Taís Madeira

    I have Sun 21 Gemini conjunct Chiron 22 Gemini at the 5th.

    Thank you, I have never been so aware before that it isn’t me who gets uncomfortable for being the center of attention but the annoying perception that many other people don’t apreciate it. Annoying enough to make me avoid it thought I enjoy it.

    • Michelle

      Chances are, when you are the center of attention, you’re displaying some part of yourself that is so authentic that it makes people feel twitchy –  they can’t deal. 

      • Astrologyhelps

        Feeling that your father or other men in your life have caused you almost insurmountable painsun chiron in 11th with packed 5th house.  Give out a lot of love and receive little back.  Men have been abusive in my life – father emotionally (not sexually), boyfriends have betrayed me repeatedly.  No longer expect anything from men and haven’t dated for 6 years despite an air grand trine that is supposed to make me beautiful.  No longer trust men and no 8th house planets but becoming more suspicious of people and their motives as I get older. 

        Also I work with groups (11th house) and a coworker gets real twitchy when I do my input.  She drives me up the wall… I am instructed to do the input for the love of X. 

        • Do you have a Venus/Pluto aspect?

          • jean

            I have a Venus (2nd house Aquarius) and Pluto (8th house Leo) opposition and had a love-hate relationship with my father……..was fairly battered (emotionally/sometimes physically), as a child, but that was more because my parents were the ‘children’ behaviour wise, rather that myself and 2 sisters. At the same time he worked about 3 jobs trying to give my mother what she wanted and he was always there when you needed him. His father a miner, was violent and ended up in an asylum in the 1920s when he was growing up in Scotland. Presbyterian my father was the youngest of 13, yes 13 children.

    • billow

      Do people sometimes drag you along to a situation they are uncomfortable with so you can fill in the blanks for them?  Like, I just need to be away tonite and I know you will do all the talking so I don’t have to? Or  I am uncomfortable with the situation I am going to, will you come along?  I stop at will you go to the bathroom with me.  I think that is something everyone needs to figure out for themselves. 

      Saving someone’s butt in that way always gets a big thank you which surprises me, because it is normally no big deal for me.